» Site Navigation | | » Recent Threads | | | | | | | 03-10-2006, 06:57 PM | #1 | Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Boston MA Posts: 221 | Momentum Driving I read an article about 4-cylinder Bimmers being a momentum car and a good way to learn momentum driving. I do a search in this forum and found last year Steven (1996 328ti) mentioned, "a stock ti needs to carry momentum." AlaskaBlue replied, "That is exactly what Ben Burrell said. A 318ti is a great car for beginners because I would learn how to carry momentum." I want to know exactly what it means: Does it mean not braking hard before turn in, floor the throttle before hitting apex? Or does it mean constant downshifting to get rev up? Does a momentum car follow a different line through the corner as compare to a higher power car? __________________ 1998 BMW 318ti M-Tech Sport Silver (Gone to member leeko617) CURRENT: 2015 BMW X1, 2004 BMW 330ci Convertible, 1998 Porsche Boxster, 2001 BMW 525i Touring GONE: 2000 Audi A4, 2002 VW Passat, 1985 VW Cabriolet | | | 03-10-2006, 07:14 PM | #2 | Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Greenville, SC Posts: 9,356 | It's keeping the revs up. Once you slow up it's tough to get going again. Part of what determines the line is the weight of the car. Smoothness is more important in a low hp car since you don't have the hp to cover mistakes. A couple years ago a guy in a stock ti passed me at Mid-Ohio. 138hp vs 190hp. Clearly the guy knew how to drive. __________________ ...steven BMW CCA #146825 1996 BMW 328ti • 2003 MINI Cooper S • 2016 M235i www.bmwcca.org | | | 03-14-2006, 12:18 AM | #3 | Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: San Jose, CA, USA Posts: 253 | Standard textbook driving would dictate a sequence of events like, "look, brake, turn, gas" - this is what they teach at any beginning track school, and it's a good place to start. In a momentum situation, you have to get the gas on much earlier because you have to maximize the time on the gas. Part of that is done with a line maximized for the widest arcs possible, the other part is gassing earlier than would make sense in a car with any power. The sequence becomes more like "look, brake, gas, turn" instead. It seems strange, but once you can do that smoothly, it really works. __________________ Andy Chittum - Mad Man Motorsports | | | 04-07-2006, 02:32 AM | #4 | Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Vallejo, CA Posts: 47 | momentum I agree with Andy on this. It's much nicer with the supercharger but remains a momentum car none-the-less. As is a Miata...which in "Spec Miata" form will give us fits with way less horsies. R-compound tires help emensely (as with the Spec Miata) but the part about gas before turn is key. You kinda squeeze the trigger to balance it all out. As soon as braking is done...you should be on the gas and turning and work to elimate all coasting. The amount of gas depends on the amount of "push" ie understeer, or "loose" ie oversteer you experience. Push equals less gas, loose equals just enough to bring it around to your turn exit where you can unwind and go full throttle. If it pushes too much, you didn't brake soon enough or your setup is wrong. Any way you do it, it is the most fun you can have with your clothes on! Gary __________________ [size=-2]95 Sport-Alpine White-5sp conversion, M3 clutch, 3.72 E30-LSD, Bilstein PSS-9s, 3"stainless-TriFlo, 17s from 330i staggared w/BFG KDWs, DASC K&N w/foglight intake, cross-drilled BavAuto rear rotors w/Pagids, 4-pot Brembos w/drilled 320mm front rotors, stainless lines, BimmerWorld RSMs. BavAuto front splitters. M-Style rear spoiler, tower brace, X-brace. | | | 04-07-2006, 03:08 AM | #5 | aka Stabby Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Mead, CO Posts: 5,336 | dammit ... i need to get out tracking! __________________ 1996 318ti, California package, 267k miles current mods: bilstein sports, bavauto springs, e30 m3 LCABs, solid metal ball joints, bavauto RSMs w/reinforcements, e30 3.73 LSD & halfshafts, supersprint cat-back exhaust, turner rear sway bar reinforcements, IE poly subframe & RTABs + camber/toe kits, powdercoated e36 32x front calipers, sport mirrors, H&R 28mmF/19mmR sway bars, x-brace, auto solutions SSK w/poly bushing upgrade, BMW CD43 head unit, DICE HD Radio w/iPod integration and "stealth" HD antenna, staggered style 68s, orange electronic TPMS, leather arm rest, JT Designs metal undertray acquired and awaiting install: heated seat kit, cali top switch relo, lumbar support kit, park distance control kit, heated washer nozzle kit, m-coupe rear subframe, trailing arms, differential, and halfshafts, m-coupe front/rear brakes with master cylinder, under hood light kit, mud flaps, rear sun blind, auto-dimming rear view mirror, tilt steering wheel retrofit, apexcone 5000K HIDs with 55W ballasts 2002 X5 4.4 Sport Package, 53.5k miles Current Mods: e46 m3 steering wheel | | | 04-07-2006, 03:46 AM | #6 | Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Muncie, Indiana Posts: 1,551 | Quote: Originally Posted by cali-ti dammit ... i need to get out tracking! | You do, but it is dangerous...you will become addicted...and it will never end. Nothing wrong with that though. | | | 04-07-2006, 04:07 AM | #7 | aka Stabby Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Mead, CO Posts: 5,336 | that's why i'm planning on getting a ti for track. i don't fear the addiction part i definitely want to be as safe as possible. be nice if the HANS were cheaper. guess that'd be after a get a roll cage anyway. just need to get out there and start doing it. __________________ 1996 318ti, California package, 267k miles current mods: bilstein sports, bavauto springs, e30 m3 LCABs, solid metal ball joints, bavauto RSMs w/reinforcements, e30 3.73 LSD & halfshafts, supersprint cat-back exhaust, turner rear sway bar reinforcements, IE poly subframe & RTABs + camber/toe kits, powdercoated e36 32x front calipers, sport mirrors, H&R 28mmF/19mmR sway bars, x-brace, auto solutions SSK w/poly bushing upgrade, BMW CD43 head unit, DICE HD Radio w/iPod integration and "stealth" HD antenna, staggered style 68s, orange electronic TPMS, leather arm rest, JT Designs metal undertray acquired and awaiting install: heated seat kit, cali top switch relo, lumbar support kit, park distance control kit, heated washer nozzle kit, m-coupe rear subframe, trailing arms, differential, and halfshafts, m-coupe front/rear brakes with master cylinder, under hood light kit, mud flaps, rear sun blind, auto-dimming rear view mirror, tilt steering wheel retrofit, apexcone 5000K HIDs with 55W ballasts 2002 X5 4.4 Sport Package, 53.5k miles Current Mods: e46 m3 steering wheel | | | 04-07-2006, 04:10 AM | #8 | Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Muncie, Indiana Posts: 1,551 | I was refering the dangerous part as being the addiction. | | | 04-07-2006, 04:14 AM | #9 | aka Stabby Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Mead, CO Posts: 5,336 | have to balance that out with all the biking and such that the mrs likes to do. so much to do, so little time. __________________ 1996 318ti, California package, 267k miles current mods: bilstein sports, bavauto springs, e30 m3 LCABs, solid metal ball joints, bavauto RSMs w/reinforcements, e30 3.73 LSD & halfshafts, supersprint cat-back exhaust, turner rear sway bar reinforcements, IE poly subframe & RTABs + camber/toe kits, powdercoated e36 32x front calipers, sport mirrors, H&R 28mmF/19mmR sway bars, x-brace, auto solutions SSK w/poly bushing upgrade, BMW CD43 head unit, DICE HD Radio w/iPod integration and "stealth" HD antenna, staggered style 68s, orange electronic TPMS, leather arm rest, JT Designs metal undertray acquired and awaiting install: heated seat kit, cali top switch relo, lumbar support kit, park distance control kit, heated washer nozzle kit, m-coupe rear subframe, trailing arms, differential, and halfshafts, m-coupe front/rear brakes with master cylinder, under hood light kit, mud flaps, rear sun blind, auto-dimming rear view mirror, tilt steering wheel retrofit, apexcone 5000K HIDs with 55W ballasts 2002 X5 4.4 Sport Package, 53.5k miles Current Mods: e46 m3 steering wheel | | | 04-07-2006, 04:28 AM | #10 | Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Greenville, SC Posts: 9,356 | Quote: Originally Posted by cali-ti have to balance that out with all the biking and such that the mrs likes to do. so much to do, so little time. | The last time I was at VIR for 4 days we stayed on site. http://www.virclub.com/vir/index.php...id=4&Itemid=45 My wife liked that a lot. She wants to go back. Who am I to deny her? __________________ ...steven BMW CCA #146825 1996 BMW 328ti • 2003 MINI Cooper S • 2016 M235i www.bmwcca.org | | | 04-07-2006, 05:10 PM | #11 | Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Quad Cities, Iowa Posts: 2,110 | Id really love to get out to a track and have a little fun. Do they have driving schools that take you out on the track? __________________ "Drive Fast and Take Chances" | | | 04-07-2006, 06:24 PM | #12 | Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Muncie, Indiana Posts: 1,551 | There are HPDEs (High Performance Driver Education) those give you track time. Search SCCA, NASA, and BMWCCA | | | 04-07-2006, 07:21 PM | #13 | Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Boston MA Posts: 221 | High Performance Driving School Quote: Originally Posted by SDKmann Id really love to get out to a track and have a little fun. Do they have driving schools that take you out on the track? | Join BMW CCA, they have driving schools beginning this time of the year. I am attending a prep session tomorrow. __________________ 1998 BMW 318ti M-Tech Sport Silver (Gone to member leeko617) CURRENT: 2015 BMW X1, 2004 BMW 330ci Convertible, 1998 Porsche Boxster, 2001 BMW 525i Touring GONE: 2000 Audi A4, 2002 VW Passat, 1985 VW Cabriolet | | | 04-07-2006, 08:05 PM | #14 | Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: San Jose, CA, USA Posts: 253 | I have to say as well, that my ti remained my track car for so long because it's inexpensive to run. A set of Axxis Ultimates per 4 full track days ($60) a set of front rotors every season or so ($80) and a set of Toyo RA1s might last 10-12 days before they're corded ($520 new or get BW scrubs for less) and it's a good package to get out there and go fast but not kill the back account. Furthermore, the RA1s and the semi-trailing arms work well at larger slip angles which go with the momentum driving. __________________ Andy Chittum - Mad Man Motorsports | | | 04-08-2006, 03:14 AM | #15 | Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Boston MA Posts: 221 | Quote: Originally Posted by andy a set of Toyo RA1s might last 10-12 days before they're corded ($520 new or get BW scrubs for less) | Andy: What is BW scrubs? Do you mean previously used tires. __________________ 1998 BMW 318ti M-Tech Sport Silver (Gone to member leeko617) CURRENT: 2015 BMW X1, 2004 BMW 330ci Convertible, 1998 Porsche Boxster, 2001 BMW 525i Touring GONE: 2000 Audi A4, 2002 VW Passat, 1985 VW Cabriolet | | | | | Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests) | | Posting Rules | You may not post new threads You may not post replies You may not post attachments You may not edit your posts HTML code is Off | | | |