325is brake upgrade?

[zoner]

Originally Posted by MichaelL

If I upgrade to 325i rotors and calipers, should I order stainless steel hoses for a 318ti? I'm assuming the 318ti and 325i hoses only differ in length, not in the size of the fittings, but wanted to make sure before ordering.

Thanks

Michael

Originally Posted by cali-ti

318ti and 325i front are the same, but you need the 318ti rears, so order the 318ti set.

I am getting ready to upgrade my brakes in the near future as well and had this very same question. I have a complete front setup (spindles, hubs, rotors, calipers, carriers) from a 1996 M3 and was wanting to upgrade to stainless lines. From what I understand in cali-ti's post, the 318ti and 325i use the same brake lines in front, but since the 325i and M3 have different front brakes, do they also have different front lines, or will I still be OK if I order the 318ti stainless line kit but use the M3 front brake system? Based on what I've read in this thread and others, I should be OK with my stock ti MC and booster, just need to know about the lines (or, if anyone cares to chime in on the MC/booster, I'm all ears).

Thanks for any insight...

[maverick]

The 318ti uses specific rear brake lines due to the rear suspension and axle arrangement, so use ti specific lines on these cars. The entire e36/e46/M3 brake caliper range will match up with these hoses, so 325 or M3 calipers on a 318ti use 318ti hoses.

Sorry I have been gone so long, lots of personal and family medical issues grounded me and my ti for 6 months.

Dave

[zoner]

Thanks for the response, Dave.

I knew that the rears were different, and knew that the ti's were the same as the non-M E36's, but was unsure if the E36M's were the same as other E36's.

I'll go ahead and order the stainless kit for ti's. I was looking at the kit that Turner Motorsport sells... does anyone have a favorite other than that kit? Thanks again.

Jerry

[1996 328ti]

Why do you want stainless steel lines?
It is debatable whether they perform any better.
Do you really think stock brake lines expand under pressure?

[Budget M3]

FWIW, at 328ti's recommendation, I bolted the 325/328 calipers w/ vented rotors on my car when I did the DASC conversion 6 years ago and left the rears stock. Using a mild track/street pad, and running 17" wheels and 235/40 rubber, I am still able to outbrake any other street car--e.g. mustangs & vettes (and almost anyone else on the track--race-prepped Mini's can outdo me) at the end of the 1/4-mile straight before the sweeping lefthander at Firebird Main. The ti is so light to begin with, that this is IMHO the best bang for buck upgrade you can make to your ti to increase braking performance.

[Budget M3]

Originally Posted by 1996 328ti

Why do you want stainless steel lines?
It is debatable whether they perform any better.
Do you really think stock brake lines expand under pressure?

I also used SS lines....not sure on the performance issue, but they do maintain a firm feel and seem to last longer than the stock lines.

[1996 328ti]

Originally Posted by Budget M3

I also used SS lines....not sure on the performance issue, but they do maintain a firm feel and seem to last longer than the stock lines.

I really think it's in our minds.
Rubber lines are steel reinforced.

[zoner]

I know that this is an age-old question as to whether there is any advantage to using SS line over rubber and and many people who have real world racing experience will tell you that there is no difference as far as brake feel. I do have some first hand longevity experience from a car that I once owned that was about 20 years old and one of the front brake lines had deteriorated to the point where it developed a small pinhole leak, but I noticed it before it became a danger to myself and others on the road. I'm of the opinion that failure of a brake system in a car is one of those things that have an extremely low probability but potentially extremely high consequences if it does.

My personal feeling is that unless you're racing the Baja 1000 or in a situation where abrasion or road debris could be a problem, there is no discernable advantage with SS lines.

My initial reasons for wanting to go with SS were 1.) I like the look; and 2.) The cost of the rubber ATE lines were going to be about $170, vs. $129 for SS from Turner Motorsport.

I did a little more poking around and found that I can get all 6 lines (ATE!) from Pelican for about $85, so I'll probably just end up going that route and save the $45. I'm not even sure that the lines need replacing (they likely don't) but after my experience with the leaky brake line years ago and the fact that my car is 15 years old, $85 is more than worth the peace of mind for me when it comes to a brake system.

As far as rubber lines being steel reinforced- I've cut open many brake lines and almost all of them are nylon/fabric reinforced. I know that there are some OEM lines that use steel reinforcement, but my experience tells me that they are in the minority. Additionally, after poking around a bit online, I notice that many SS lines are not DOT approved. DOT approved brake lines will meet whip (35 hours of flailing), ozone, salt spray, cold flex, and tensile (325 lb) tests. I suspect that the not-DOT SS lines do not meet these standards (especially the whip and cold flex tests, as teflon tends to be a little less forgiving than rubber). For the record, the Turner Motorsport SS lines are DOT approved (or so they claim).

Now that I've spent the last hour or so geeking out on hydraulic systems, it's time to go replace the belt tensioner shock on the M42...

[1996 328ti]

Good info. It sounds like you've made an informed decision.
I may need to replace mine with S/S too.
They do look cool.

The last time I got lines I bought Fischer.

[m44lee]

hello guys read through this whole thread before i posted stuff that was already posted!
and while there is some good info in this thread there is also a bit of waffle!

as in people saying it doesnt matter about bigger discs etc! of course it does in laymens terms your using more leverage on a bigger disc (imagine trying to stop a disc with your hands do you think it'd be easier with a smaller disc or a larger 1?)!
as said in some threads the e36 318is -328 front brakes will bolt straight on and have 286mm discs the e36 m3 brakes will only fit after changing the hub the king pin etc and are 315 iirc and is quiet a hassle when you can fit the e46 330 brakes that are bigger at 325mm x 25

however it is recommended that you change the master cylinder to the m3 evo one to keep the peddle feel as without it the travel is too long!

and i've just done this myself a few pics while i did it!

318is brakes

changed for the 330 variant with goodridge stainless hoses!


and all done bled up and wheels fitted! and as someone else has said you need at least 17" wheels to fit them under!

[pdxmotorhead]

I've done them at the track during a track day. Definately made the pedal harder.

THey also show leaks better if the hose is tired.

Dave

[npagan2]

if i'm swapping the 325is rotors and calipers on, will a 16" wheel work?

[tiFreak]

you could run as small as a 15", they're the same diameter as stock ti brakes, they just use vented instead of solid rotors

[npagan2]

thanks for the info.

[npagan2]