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I'm thinking about buying a ti. Ask all your questions about the possible purchase of a ti. Keep in mind, we are biased.

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Old 12-10-2008, 03:50 AM   #1
vwzx7
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Question M3 (S52) Motor Swap car

Hey Guy's,

I have a question about a possible buy of a '95 318ti with an M3 motor swap that I am considering. I am or would be new to BMW's if I do this and would appreciate any advice that you all may give.

I've found said car and would be using this car a dedicated track car and would like to know your opinion of a 318ti (w/ the M3 motor) as a track car. Would it be a good performer, handling wise? I have no doubts that it can pull with that lump up front but will it be too tail happy? I'd be gutting the car and having a full cage installed. I ask this only because I have yet to see a 318ti at any of the track events I've been to so far. Of course there are plenty of E36/46's being used as well as E30's. (Does this answer my question )

From what I know or have been told - the motor has only 31k on it total and the car has 120k on it. Only 2k of the 31k was put on the motor after the swap. Work was performed by Azevedo Motorsports in NJ and car is selling from Enthusiast Auto Group also from Ohio. They appear to be reputable groups from what I can determine over here in CT but would like any input you may be able to give. EAG actually states they sell cars with the right of 1st refusal when or if I sell the car....and have bought every car offered back to them. They deal only in BMW's....

Thanks in adance..
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Old 12-10-2008, 03:57 AM   #2
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I'll be honest. I suggest that since you are new to bmw's that you stick with stock. It gives you a chance to learn what they're all about. And best of all, a lot of us can help you with problems. If you get a 332ti (318ti with 3.2 m3 engine), the amount of people that can help you will be drastically reduced. As you familiar yourself with bmw's, then feel free to step up.

I'm not trying to discourage you, but instead, warning you of the headaches that would follow.
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Old 12-10-2008, 04:00 AM   #3
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I have heard of a couple people tracking M3 swapped ti's, the handling apparently doesn't suffer to badly but if you're not an experienced auto-x driver it might be best to stick with a slower car first so you are able to control it and not running in a class you can't compete in
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Old 12-10-2008, 04:04 AM   #4
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I never know if this is the one originally from Chicago.

An M3 is not that heavy upfront.
My car is still almost 50/50.

If the conversion is done right you won't have issues.

It really depends on if you want the novelty of a ti.
And a lot depends on the cost.

Edit: That's not an automatic, is it?
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Old 12-10-2008, 04:13 AM   #5
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I would imagine that if you are buying this as a dedicated track car, you have experience with this sort of thing.

I have heard that the stock weight balance can be retained by relocating the battery to the rear and installing a carbon fiber hood. If you get some nice wide wheels with sticky tires you should be able to put the power down nicely. Is the engine stock? Also, an LSD from an E30 would definitely help out in this situation.

There are a couple threads in the track forum where guys are running swapped tis. Check out some of those, I think you should definitely go for it.

http://www.318ti.org/forum/showthread.php?t=22179
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Old 12-10-2008, 04:42 AM   #6
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Wow! You guy's are awesome for responding so fast...and so many of you.

No, it's not an automatic...

Don't know if it's been in Chicago before hand but being currently in Ohio it could have been.

Yes, I have been autox'ing for a couple years now driving an '03 MCS in street mod.

And after starting to do track days last year in the MINI I've already reached the performance limit of that car. I'm turning 101's at Limerock and 2:21's at Watkins Glen in a street MINI with a modded suspension and Hoosiers. There's not much more to be had in the MINI as far as time so before I really start to push the MINI too hard (and possibly throw it off the track) I thought I'd step up to a more sutible car and make it safer with some safety modifications.

Novelty of a ti......no. Just am intertested in a light weight/high hp car to have fun with and not get bored with too soon.

The car's not cheap but it's bascially all I need. After I get a cage in it I should be all set initially. After I'll have to see if I'm happy with the performance of the suspension/brakes. BUT.....what I'd have to spend on a 3 series car and then turn it into a track car would be close to what I'd be spending on this thing. Had a line on an '95 325is for $4k that was very nice that I had planned on converting but that fell thru...
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Old 12-10-2008, 06:40 AM   #7
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also from ct

who do you autox with, cart? fcscc?

At the ed of the day, 'track' can mean 3 different things.


The real deal comes down to the rule book of what you want the car to race in.

in autoX, you'll be in street mod or higher... a HIGHLY competitive class.
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Old 12-10-2008, 10:08 AM   #8
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hint hint... the perfect combination of weight for Ti with S52 is 48f/52r. if you have LSD and a 240HP and you got 50/50 do you know whats going to happen? NO FUN cornering at 90 MPH. what your going to get is a mustang GT500 with ancient suspension. hence, youre going to have a drag car not a track car.

if you intend to join the S52s be prepared to spend a month...depending how good you are... the tools... and about 10k cash or credit... plus some contacts... a good s52 is hard to find and they sell fast... just sold my extra one actually for 3500...

this is what you need:
s52 motor with intake!!! some sell them without them
M3 tranny.
ECU
suspension upgrades
differential upgrade.
radiator
alternator

etc etc etc... not yet done. but im sleepy. ill make you a complete list next weekend if you want. kind of busy with stuff. im also swing shift for the darn month... thats why im still awake...
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Old 12-10-2008, 04:27 PM   #9
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the ti he's buying already has the swap done
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Old 12-10-2008, 05:05 PM   #10
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Check this thread out and PM me with any questions.

http://318ti.org/forum/showthread.php?t=22572
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Old 12-10-2008, 05:08 PM   #11
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Front to rear weight balance is a matter of driver preference. There is no magic weight balance number, and the whole 50/50 thing is BMW marketing. You'll find very few professional cars that sit at exactly 50/50.

Back to the original question, yes, there are 318Ti's with M3 swaps that are raced and do very well. The only down side is the suspension setup. E36 front with E30 rear. It kind of limits what is available. There are many more suspension options for a regular e36 sedan or coupe.

The rear brakes also become an issue if you find that you need to upgrade them. MassiveBrakes is the only vendor that currently has a bolt on solution for the rear of the 318Ti for aftermarket brakes.

Is your mini a cooper works? I regularly track my 318ti with the stock m42 and a completely redone suspension. I can easily outrun a regular stock mini. If you get a mini with a done suspension setup and race tires it would come down to driver experience. A stock cooper works Mini can outrun my car with the right driver. The power is majorly lacking in the M42. If I had an s50 or s52 in my car I would be able to hang with other track modified M3's and the middle of the road porsches. My corner entry and exit speeds are up there with M3's and faster porsches, but I don't have the acceleration of the other cars.

With the M42 the 318ti makes a very cheap track car, easy on tires and brakes. With an s50/52 you are going to be using a lot more tires and brakes, so it might be the same cost as an M3 to track.

Honestly, if you are going to strip the car and do extra safety work, I would probably look for an M3 that is in good shape. The extra weight of the body is made up for by stronger differential, stronger subframe, and some extra little goodies that the M3 came with.

a 95 318ti has a three channel ABS, and the 96+ M3 has four channel ABS, with better brakes all the way around, and a dual ear differential carrier that is stronger that the e30/Ti single ear carrier.
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Old 12-10-2008, 11:49 PM   #12
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OP-I am well familiar with the Keller brothers at Enthusiast Auto. Many people speak highly of them and are active members of the local BMWCCA group. Can't think of one bad thing about them. If I can be of any help checking out the car or recommending another shop for an inspection I'd be happy to. I'm no mechanic but EAG is pretty thorough and typically deal with higher end cars so I don't anticipate issues. I think Campaiar here also wanted to check it out and he's done 2 6 cyl swaps. I would be available until thursday 12/18, then I'm out of town.

LMK, Phil
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Old 12-11-2008, 12:13 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mohaughn View Post
Is your mini a cooper works? I regularly track my 318ti with the stock m42 and a completely redone suspension. I can easily outrun a regular stock mini.
Is that a stock Mini or Cooper S? I am par with a stock Cooper S and Cooper S' with suspension can easily walk away from me.
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Old 12-11-2008, 03:16 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by briansol View Post
also from ct

who do you autox with, cart? fcscc?

At the ed of the day, 'track' can mean 3 different things.


The real deal comes down to the rule book of what you want the car to race in.

in autoX, you'll be in street mod or higher... a HIGHLY competitive class.
I autox with both those groups....I run most every event they host. And you? Might I have seen you around?

This ti I may buy would be used for HPDE's only, not door to door racing or autox.
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Old 12-11-2008, 03:34 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M332TI View Post
hint hint... the perfect combination of weight for Ti with S52 is 48f/52r. if you have LSD and a 240HP and you got 50/50 do you know whats going to happen? NO FUN cornering at 90 MPH. what your going to get is a mustang GT500 with ancient suspension. hence, youre going to have a drag car not a track car.

if you intend to join the S52s be prepared to spend a month...depending how good you are... the tools... and about 10k cash or credit... plus some contacts... a good s52 is hard to find and they sell fast... just sold my extra one actually for 3500...

this is what you need:
s52 motor with intake!!! some sell them without them
M3 tranny.
ECU
suspension upgrades
differential upgrade.
radiator
alternator

etc etc etc... not yet done. but im sleepy. ill make you a complete list next weekend if you want. kind of busy with stuff. im also swing shift for the darn month... thats why im still awake...
Yup...this car is already done.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mohaughn View Post

Is your mini a cooper works? I regularly track my 318ti with the stock m42 and a completely redone suspension. I can easily outrun a regular stock mini. If you get a mini with a done suspension setup and race tires it would come down to driver experience. A stock cooper works Mini can outrun my car with the right driver. The power is majorly lacking in the M42. If I had an s50 or s52 in my car I would be able to hang with other track modified M3's and the middle of the road porsches. My corner entry and exit speeds are up there with M3's and faster porsches, but I don't have the acceleration of the other cars.
My MINI is an S....not a JCW - with a lot of bolt on mods and Hoosiers, no motor work. As you said with your 318ti, I have terrific entry/exit speed but lack grunt down the straights. That said if I get in front of just about anyone - I'm gone. Unless we're talking about Z06's and high caliber P-cars or a serious track car. It's really gratifying to have cars be shown the move over flag because I'm coming up behind them! BUT...I'm only in the Intrmediate run groups now so when I get to the open track groups I'll be giving the wave by alot so hence my pursuit of a track car that I can grow into.
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