Bilstein vs Konis vs KYB shock and i mean all types....

[handballallday]

so like the title says, i'd like to compare and get your personal opinions/advice/experience about these shocks. I plan on getting H&R Sport springs and i've been in the game long enough to know changing the shocks would be best when lowering a car with aftermarket springs.

I recently picked up my 318ti over the weekend and it is my 3rd car so i am very much on a budget. I happen to like H&R springs quite a bit. I am currently looking/shopping on TireRack. Now i know the most common shock/strut to throw on with the H&R springs are Bilstein SPORTS but what about Bilstein HD shocks or Bilstein Touring Class? I'm seeing different types of Bilsteins.

Then there's Koni Sport and Koni STR.T. What do you guys make of those? AND then there's KYB-GR2's.

I currently have on my 91 Miata H&R Race springs with KYB-GR2's. I bought the shocks new when i installed the springs and the drop is 1.5" front and back which is perfect for me. Now i don't daily the Miata. It's a weekend cruiser for me but it is surprisingly comfy for that kind of drop and shock because i know GR2's are STOCK REPLACEMENTS.

my question is.... since i'm on a budget do i REALLY need Bilstein Sports?! I don't race or autocross. Just weekend driving. Nothing crazy. I don't need crazy super duper shocks. Just a low budget shock to accommodate my driving needs.

Basically can i just go with the lower end shock/strut like Bilstein Touring Class, Koni STR.T Street, or even KYB-GR2's? THanks.

[handballallday]

bump for the suspension heads with experience. Advice and opinions please?!

[ZEK]

While I'm on stock sport springs I cannot fully answer your question, I have KYB GR2 rears. http://www.318ti.org/forum/showthread.php?t=40609

They are 2.3 Z3 rears from Tirerack. Cost around $37 a piece and were an improvement over stock (though the stock were worn out). Supposedly they are stiffer than OEM.

KYB: Extended Length 21.02
Compressed Length: 13.19
Stroke: 7.83

Bilstein Sport: Extended Length 21
Compressed Length: 13.15

Sorry I'm not much help. Good luck

[handballallday]

bump.... no one has experience and/or can compare any of these shocks? Even on different vehicles? I want to know if i'll bottom out with the lower end shocks/struts paired with the H&R SPORT springs?

[joe1602]

I currently have a set of Koni Orange (non-adjustable) paired with H & R Red (race springs on my 2002 325Ci. It is VERY low to the ground, I do not know the clearance but it is not much. It handles very, very well but it has made the car impractical for city driving. My son had it in Philly for about a month & said if he had to drive it there on a daily basis, we would have to put the stock springs back in due to clearance and ride quality issues. That being said, I drive it on a daily basis in upstate NY and love the way it rides and handles, but it can be a very, very rough ride. I am also in the process of purchasing Koni Yellows (adjustable) for the ti and H & R race springs. This car, however, is our autocross car and I am not concerned at all about ride height or quality. I am thinking these struts & springs will lower the ti as much as the 325. H & R says something like 2.5 inch drop for the front and I think 1.7 for the rears. I am just going from memory on those measurements so they may be off. I do not have any experience with the Bilstein or KYB shocks. I do know that I like the Koni/H&R setup & that's why I am going with it for the ti. Good Luck & hope this helps a little.

[handballallday]

it kinda sorta somewhat helped but not really. Thanks anyway brother. H&R offers Sport and Race springs for our TI's.

H&R Sport springs drop 1.4" front and 1.0" rear
H&R Race springs drop 2.2" front and 1.2" rear

[DerekNH]

Originally Posted by handballallday

it kinda sorta somewhat helped but not really. Thanks anyway brother. H&R offers Sport and Race springs for our TI's.

H&R Sport springs drop 1.4" front and 1.0" rear
H&R Race springs drop 2.2" front and 1.2" rear

I currently have Bilstein Sport struts (yellow) and I believe stock M-Tech springs. Offer a comfortable and smooth ride while also offer a small drop. I am looking into buying H&R Sport springs to drop it a bit lower while also keeping the smooth ride that coilovers don't offer. I feel as though H&R Race springs are too aggressive for the street and can affect the toe/camber adjustments to the rear wheels. Sport for me

[BlackBMWs]

So I run H&R Super Sports (purple) on my 97 with Billy Sports. Nice firm ride that dosent damage your kidneys. High enough for most potholes and speed bumps, but will still destroy the front fascia at a supermarket concrete parking wheel stop.

I have a set of CATuned coilovers destined for the Cali when I get a minute. Not looking for a big drop for drivability purposes, but looking forward to the suspension firmness. I have F/R strut braces and X-braces on both cars.

I'd think you'd bottom out the taller shocks/struts with a set of shorter springs, damaging the mounts and potentially the sheet metal where they attach. 😱


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[spidertri]

Allow me to launch off on the subject and probably offend a bunch of people.

The history of suspensions my car has had (all of which I paid good money for):
-Stock blown active package
-DDM coilovers
-Bilstein sport w/H&R sport
-Koni Yellow w/H&R sport
-Koni Yellow w/H&R sport front TCKline 500lb rear springs
-TC Kline coilovers 400F/600R and then 450F/700R

Don't buy bilstein HDs, they are too long even for stock spring length. Bilstein sports really should be shorter and they are definitely too long for H&R race spring drop. (I never ran it but I think bilstein sport with stock sport springs is a good combo)

I do not like H&R springs, they lower too much without increasing the spring rate enough. So imagine you have bilstein sports (too long and stiff) and H&R springs (way too soft and short). Your suspension will have a tiny, tiny operating window before the struts/shocks run out of travel. The the shock is on the bumpstop. The bilsteins need a longer, softer spring (stock) or a short stiff spring to restrict travel.


The rear springs were terrible on both Bilstein sports and Koni yellows. I was very upset with the ride on Bils sports with H&R sport, not comfortable at all and overly stiff shocks/struts. I'm sure they would be awesome on the racetrack but not fun for me on roads. What made it more ridiculous was that I came from crappy DDM coilovers to bilstein sports and the DDMs were definitely more comfortable.

Koni yellow w/ H&R was slightly better than the bilsteins but the springs still didnt offer enough rate in the rear.

Konis /TCK springs, I started seeing the light. More rear spring rate really kept the rear suspension in check and made the ride better.

TCK coils 400/600 were awesomely comfortable on the street and could be turned up stiff for the autox/track. I gave some local guys rides in my car and I could tell they were being awakened by what the ti could do with a good suspension. TCK with 450/700, the ride is on the harsh side again. 400/600 was the sweet spot for me.


For the OP, koni str.t are basically a yellow that is 1/2~3/4 stiff and non adjustable. It's a good compromise strut for less money. Don't get bilstein sports/HDs. The touring class is a twin tube strut/shock and would probably ride better but I don't know how well they'd pair with H&R sport springs.

[DerekNH]

Originally Posted by spidertri

Allow me to launch off on the subject and probably offend a bunch of people.

The history of suspensions my car has had (all of which I paid good money for):
-Stock blown active package
-DDM coilovers
-Bilstein sport w/H&R sport
-Koni Yellow w/H&R sport
-Koni Yellow w/H&R sport front TCKline 500lb rear springs
-TC Kline coilovers 400F/600R and then 450F/700R

Don't buy bilstein HDs, they are too long even for stock spring length. Bilstein sports really should be shorter and they are definitely too long for H&R race spring drop. (I never ran it but I think bilstein sport with stock sport springs is a good combo)

I do not like H&R springs, they lower too much without increasing the spring rate enough. So imagine you have bilstein sports (too long and stiff) and H&R springs (way too soft and short). Your suspension will have a tiny, tiny operating window before the struts/shocks run out of travel. The the shock is on the bumpstop. The bilsteins need a longer, softer spring (stock) or a short stiff spring to restrict travel.


The rear springs were terrible on both Bilstein sports and Koni yellows. I was very upset with the ride on Bils sports with H&R sport, not comfortable at all and overly stiff shocks/struts. I'm sure they would be awesome on the racetrack but not fun for me on roads. What made it more ridiculous was that I came from crappy DDM coilovers to bilstein sports and the DDMs were definitely more comfortable.

Koni yellow w/ H&R was slightly better than the bilsteins but the springs still didnt offer enough rate in the rear.

Konis /TCK springs, I started seeing the light. More rear spring rate really kept the rear suspension in check and made the ride better.

TCK coils 400/600 were awesomely comfortable on the street and could be turned up stiff for the autox/track. I gave some local guys rides in my car and I could tell they were being awakened by what the ti could do with a good suspension. TCK with 450/700, the ride is on the harsh side again. 400/600 was the sweet spot for me.


For the OP, koni str.t are basically a yellow that is 1/2~3/4 stiff and non adjustable. It's a good compromise strut for less money. Don't get bilstein sports/HDs. The touring class is a twin tube strut/shock and would probably ride better but I don't know how well they'd pair with H&R sport springs.

As stated above I have Bilstein Sport struts and am looking for springs to lower a bit further I am now. Where can I find the TCK springs you mention? I looked everywhere with no luck. Thanks.

[handballallday]

Originally Posted by spidertri

Allow me to launch off on the subject and probably offend a bunch of people.

The history of suspensions my car has had (all of which I paid good money for):
-Stock blown active package
-DDM coilovers
-Bilstein sport w/H&R sport
-Koni Yellow w/H&R sport
-Koni Yellow w/H&R sport front TCKline 500lb rear springs
-TC Kline coilovers 400F/600R and then 450F/700R

Don't buy bilstein HDs, they are too long even for stock spring length. Bilstein sports really should be shorter and they are definitely too long for H&R race spring drop. (I never ran it but I think bilstein sport with stock sport springs is a good combo)

I do not like H&R springs, they lower too much without increasing the spring rate enough. So imagine you have bilstein sports (too long and stiff) and H&R springs (way too soft and short). Your suspension will have a tiny, tiny operating window before the struts/shocks run out of travel. The the shock is on the bumpstop. The bilsteins need a longer, softer spring (stock) or a short stiff spring to restrict travel.


The rear springs were terrible on both Bilstein sports and Koni yellows. I was very upset with the ride on Bils sports with H&R sport, not comfortable at all and overly stiff shocks/struts. I'm sure they would be awesome on the racetrack but not fun for me on roads. What made it more ridiculous was that I came from crappy DDM coilovers to bilstein sports and the DDMs were definitely more comfortable.

Koni yellow w/ H&R was slightly better than the bilsteins but the springs still didnt offer enough rate in the rear.

Konis /TCK springs, I started seeing the light. More rear spring rate really kept the rear suspension in check and made the ride better.

TCK coils 400/600 were awesomely comfortable on the street and could be turned up stiff for the autox/track. I gave some local guys rides in my car and I could tell they were being awakened by what the ti could do with a good suspension. TCK with 450/700, the ride is on the harsh side again. 400/600 was the sweet spot for me.


For the OP, koni str.t are basically a yellow that is 1/2~3/4 stiff and non adjustable. It's a good compromise strut for less money. Don't get bilstein sports/HDs. The touring class is a twin tube strut/shock and would probably ride better but I don't know how well they'd pair with H&R sport springs.

So basically you're saying to stay away from Bilstein right? And that Koni STR.T's may be a decent option for me? I guess since you didn't mention the KYB-GR2's then I shouldn't even consider them huh?

[BlackBMWs]

What I like about this topic is (like when you ask what is the best wheel or tire) is you are going to get individual preferences on what folks like for their particular application and use.

Take the feedback you get here, consider what you are really going to use the car for and develop a solution that fits that needs and the comfort/performance/looks you are going for.

BTW, I think Dave's setup is great, but mine suits me well. (for now)

[spidertri]

TCK = TC Kline Racing = http://www.tcklineracing.com/index.c...y&Category=149

These are coilover springs, since the rear of the ti is separate shock/spring you can put whatever rate/length spring in there that you want and it will work. You can add height adjusters if you want or stack various size spring pads. TCK springs are neat because they have a small side that fits perfectly on the stock rubber pad, the other end is sized for a 60mm spring perch.

Lots of people sell used coilover springs so you don't have to buy new ones and experiment with lots of money to find out what spring rate works best for your needs.

General rule of thumb, 5mm height at the spring = 1/3" change in ride height. Spring pads are OE parts and you can find the part numbers on real oem.


I didn't mention KYBs because I don't have experience with them. I've used Koni str.ts on a VW jetta and found them good value for the money when paired with eibach springs. Feel free to consider any options out there, I'm just offering input on what I've used.

[handballallday]

BlackBMWs and spidertri.... i have to thank you both for your insight and knowledge on the subject. I couldn't be more appreciative.

I'm just looking for a moderate raked drop so i will definitely be going with H&R SPORT springs in the very near future. I don't track or autocross my cars. Just some spirited driving on the weekends. So i don't need any high performance setups when it comes to shocks/struts.

I'm not looking/wanting the cheapest set of shocks/struts but something decent when paired with the H&R Sport springs. Like i said on my first post above.... my 91 Miata has H&R Race springs which drop the car 1.5" all around paired with KYB-GR2's. To me it's dropped perfectly and surprisingly comfy for my needs. With that said, maybe i'll consider between the KYB-GR2's and Koni STR.T's.

here's pics of my Miata dropped on H&R Race springs....






and the recently acquired 318ti in stock form....

[DerekNH]

I have to second the thanks on the insight. Considering that I am looking for the same sort of setup (spirited driving/ no track use) and my ti had Bilstein Sports when I bought it, I'll go with the H&R Sport springs. May change if a racetrack is built near me