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Old 12-30-2009, 12:20 PM   #1
SNOWti
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Default Bad Post-Sale Experience with Org Member... what can I do?

In the beginning of my introduction to the 318 ti, I was sold one by a member on here, whom at the time, I didnt know he was a member on this board, and he completely did not tell me about numerous problems.

Before I get into specifics, what can I do? In terms of letting people know with his real name what kind of person he is. Would you recommend me telling it like it is?

I mean, I straight up asked him any leaks, any issues with the transmission, all that I asked, and he denied actually were there, the problems. I accepted it was a salvage title, but again, I'll give details about what he said about that title and why it was given to this ti.

I think he no longer is an active member as his profile states last activity in May of '09. He was a frustrated M3 conversion poser and ended up I think selling his ti with no additional mods besides maybe wheels/tires, from what I gathered, tried selling it on here.

Anyway, whats the record on people like this? I paid 2300 and ended up maybe about another 1 - 1.5k on repairs and thats not with any tranny work YET, which may run me an additional 1500 and discovered other bull**** along the way.

I've thought, well, live and learn and I have learned a lot, maybe this was my learning ti, Im loosely planning on fixing some body issues and repainting it.

Want details?

He was one of those people, I realized later, that talk a lot like they know what the problem is and the cost right on the spot... while puffing on a cigarette... you know the type.

Let me know your thoughts. What would you do? The experienced ti owner and true enthusiast and appreciator.
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Old 12-30-2009, 12:35 PM   #2
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Well most 318ti(s) have higher mileage and one would only expect for these vehicle to have some issues. I have sold several cars to people that I have looked over myself with a fine tooth comb and they still encountered issues with them.

Airbag/ abs lights and other problems have appeared with a few days of them buying the car. You have just as much responsibility to inspect the vehicle to your satisfaction and offer what you are willing to pay for the condition its in.

Its almost impossible for the seller to disclose every problem that a car might have.

If you want to disclose the sellers info go right ahead but ask yourself; "Am I doing this because I'm upset or because I want to inform other members".



What repairs have been made had how much were they (asking for a breakdown here)?
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Old 12-30-2009, 01:05 PM   #3
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Im upset AND want to inform others who may look him up.

You are right, I should of had inspected, I bear a bit of responsibility in that. At the time, I bought it a slight rush after an accident and needed a small hatchback and safety and maneuverability and bit of sportiness, which I found out the ti had. I came from Toyota and GMs. Toyota - great engine, sad handling and ride and stability, pathetic and dangerous, same with GMs. At the time, I also needed to get on the road for work reasons and so on, I bought the ti not for posing, tuning or moding, I bought it because I needed a safe, strong, super-handling, rear drive, sporty hatchback with good driver visibility and practicality. I saw it on craigs and it was within my budget, I said, lets try these out. I love ti's now. I own two.

Anyway, its not little things, the transmission slipped a day after, I asked him about it, and he said, I must of turned on the A/M button to M. He acted like he didnt know that but c'mon now, the dude had driven it for commuting, he knew. Eff that. Although there are times it drives fine, the tranny - auto - heats up very hot and then starts slipping and thumping into limp mode with gear light. Thats when I accelerate and it doesnt go! It just revs up and doesnt go, high RPMs and them thump and limp mode.

Now, that problem just doesnt appear suddenly, thats a growing tranny issue and HE KNEW IT. I may have to replace it or do serious tune up or something. It may just cost me an additional 1500 as recommended by a BMW mechanic with experience and a good rep.

There were other problems that arose - briefly because perhaps too much detail doesnt matter - coolant leak that wasnt there the or left there the day I bought it. Rack and pinion was leaking - replaced. Oil pan gasket, steering clock spring which revealed that something was done to the steering as a result of an accident. The dude said oh the salvage title was becuase they stole it and they crashed the driver side bumper. Bull****. The whole side of the car has bondo work when I had it lifted up for a brake job. The paint is coming off - cheapy paint, although the body work is not that bad. That explains the steering and door not fully closing where it the car thinks I have the door ajar when I dont. The windows caved in, both. The rear brake sensor was glued to the car harness. One of the rear suspension bars was out of the anti-sawy bars, I have to fix that. He pretended to lose the "service records" which was bull****, he never had anything on the car. The closer I looked to detailing the cars interior, the more gunk, filth and stains I found, some people...

But on the good side the engine is smooth, strong and the car drives excellent on freeways, solid handling, powerful at times, good acceleration, and so on.

I can do into more detail but I dont know, Im angry yes. Because the car will end up costing me more to "restore" than buying a preserved and appreciated one.

Dont blame the victim.

Last edited by SNOWti; 12-30-2009 at 02:44 PM. Reason: .
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Old 12-30-2009, 04:01 PM   #4
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Unfortunately, used car sales are almost always an as is, unless you had it in writing that the previous owner owed you something after the sale. It sucks to get burned, but that is the way it is. Older BMWs can be expensive to maintain, and should never be bought without a thorough and complete inspection.

If it is somebody that hasn't been on here since May, I'm not really sure what posting his information would do for the rest of us. The person obviously is not an active member, and isn't here trying to sell stuff. You might want to look into your local small claims court actions, and see if you have any proof that the sale was misrepresented.

Didn't we have a point system for transactions on the board? Where you could leave good or bad comments about a sale. I'd use that to leave the appropriate kind of comment. Threads like this usually get locked down as the mods don't care for the bickering that it can cause, and rightfully so.
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Old 12-30-2009, 04:19 PM   #5
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I bought a Ti from someone on the board here. For the most part it was a good transaction. Although there were some things that the seller didn't disclose. After a year of owning it, I have spent around 2k on maintenance stuff that I thought was taken care of.

In the end, I blame myself for not doing a more thorough job of checking it out and blame him for not being 100% straight up and blame the Ti for being old.

It was a lesson learned.
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Old 12-30-2009, 04:31 PM   #6
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I don't know what year or condition the car was, but $2300?
Sounds pretty low.

While I would hope any decent human being would provide full disclosure, it doesn't sound like you paid very much for the car.
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Old 12-30-2009, 05:26 PM   #7
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People often forget that these cars are over 10 years old. You can't possibly expect a car with over 100k miles to be in mint condition. Especially if you only paid 2300 bucks for it. I've been burned on purchases before, but it's usually when I buy stuff online and can't inspect it first. I'm sure the seller let you inspect and drive it prior to purchasing. I mean, so now that you're realizing what it takes to fix/maintain a 13+ year old car, do you feel like you should have paid less for it? Would it be fair if the car only cost 1300? Or would you still complain that it's a POS because the window falls off track and the headliner sags? Here's a scenerio for you, when was the last time you seen a Hyundai Excel on the road? You won't because they're extinct. The transmissions were garbage and they all eventually ended up in the junkyard. Now I suppose if there was a true enthusiast, he/she could spend the money to restore and maintain one, but you have to expect things to wear out and break over time. You can't buy a car with 200k miles on it and then when the transmission blows up, blame the previous owner for not maintaining it. How long would you expect a transmission to last? It certainly won't last forever. Do you really think the previous owner tried to hide things from you? What can a seller do to mask a slipping transmission for a couple days until the car is sold? I deal with people like this all of the time. They think that for every stain, ding or imperfection that they find, I should knock $$$ off of my asking price. Well it doesn't work that way. If the thing was mint, my price would be higher. It doesn't start at the asking price and then go down for every thing you find wrong with it. The fact is, you bought a 13+ year old car knowing full and well that it had a salvaged title due to an accident. You were given the opportunity to inspect it, heck you could've drove it up on a curb and looked underneath it. If the deal didn't suit your expectations, why did you hand over your cash? What did you expect for $2300?

FWIW, I don't know the seller. I'm just trying to make a few points since I've dealt with buyers like you who like to blame the previous owner for their problems and not giving them a free car. I got a good deal on my car, heck I flew to Michigan, inspected it, paid cash and drove it back to Cali. It wasn't perfect, but I don't hold anything against the seller. It's a used car with the typical 10 years worth of wear and tear that goes along with it. If you want to bitch about things breaking, buy a NEW car. That's why new cars come with warranties.

Last edited by cooljess76; 12-30-2009 at 05:38 PM.
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Old 12-30-2009, 06:06 PM   #8
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I bought mine on this forum and wound up having to replace the head gasket. Is it possible the seller didn't know, sure, but I think it's likely he did. The body also showed more damage later on (black wax). I paid what I feel is top dollar for a clean car and I'm not sure I got that. Buyer beware, etc.

That being said, I haven't gone out of my way to call this person out on it.
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Old 12-30-2009, 06:40 PM   #9
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What's top dollar? I mean new, the MSRP was $21,390. Subtract 10 years worth of wear and tear from that and what does it leave you with? Did the car show symptoms of a blown headgasket? Was it running when you bought it? You can't blame the seller for waxing the car, I usually clean things up prior to selling. People are more likely to buy something that is clean and shiny. What kind of wax did he use to cover up bodywork?

Here's the deal guys. These cars are getting so old that MSRP and KBB no longer apply. These cars are only worth what people are willing to pay for them. Like any major purchase, the buyer is responsible for doing his/her research and inspecting prior to handing over cash and driving off. Personally, I wouldn't even consider purchasing a car without first taking it for a test drive. I run them hard and let them idle for the entire time I'm inspecting it. Once you hand over the cash, you've bought whatever problems that car comes with. If you're in a hurry, if you overlook something, that's your fault. If the thing blows up two miles down the road, you can't blame the guy who sold it to you. Engines don't just blow up without knocking/overheating/smoking. Transmissions don't just go out without grinding/slipping/clunking. Bodywork/damage doesn't go away and then reappear. I'm looking at this car right now:
http://slo.craigslist.org/cto/1528895336.html

The seller says it needs bodywork, but he didn't say it was in an accident. Should I talk him down to $1000, buy it and then come on here and badmouth him?
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Old 12-30-2009, 07:01 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cooljess76 View Post
What's top dollar? I mean new, the MSRP was $21,390. Subtract 10 years worth of wear and tear from that and what does it leave you with? Did the car show symptoms of a blown headgasket? Was it running when you bought it? You can't blame the seller for waxing the car, I usually clean things up prior to selling. People are more likely to buy something that is clean and shiny. What kind of wax did he use to cover up bodywork?

Here's the deal guys. These cars are getting so old that MSRP and KBB no longer apply. These cars are only worth what people are willing to pay for them. Like any major purchase, the buyer is responsible for doing his/her research and inspecting prior to handing over cash and driving off. Personally, I wouldn't even consider purchasing a car without first taking it for a test drive. I run them hard and let them idle for the entire time I'm inspecting it. Once you hand over the cash, you've bought whatever problems that car comes with. If you're in a hurry, if you overlook something, that's your fault. If the thing blows up two miles down the road, you can't blame the guy who sold it to you. Engines don't just blow up without knocking/overheating/smoking. Transmissions don't just go out without grinding/slipping/clunking. Bodywork/damage doesn't go away and then reappear. I'm looking at this car right now:
http://slo.craigslist.org/cto/1528895336.html

The seller says it needs bodywork, but he didn't say it was in an accident. Should I talk him down to $1000, buy it and then come on here and badmouth him?
You're missing my point - I'm not putting blame on the seller, I'm instead putting it on the buyer (incase my point is still being missed, I was the buyer).

The car was sold to me with extensive records showing a lot of work to the cooling system, and didn't show any symptoms of a blown headgasket on my around town drives. It was a minor split in the gasket that was slowly introducing air into the system. Car was freshly bled when I got it and wasn't driven much. The car was also noted as being very "clean" and in reality, wasn't. Waxing/washing is one thing, masking with color tinted wax is another.

I bought the car a little over two years ago for $6500. Considering a few months later I had to put in 1K for a head gasket and a clutch a little later, I'd say I paid more than average. Nobody's fault but my own.
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Old 12-30-2009, 08:03 PM   #11
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I agree with Gimp. It is the buyer's responsibility. Totally. However, there can be frustration when the seller isn't being upfront. In my case, I bought it sight unseen, so I had it checked out prior to purchase. But case in point. I asked the seller specifically about the headliner. He said it was in great condition. When I picked up the car, the headliner was sagging. Is that my fault? I don't think so.
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Old 12-30-2009, 11:58 PM   #12
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I'm with Jess on this one. These cars are old and you get with you pay for. If you want a car that is in very good condition and has a seller that stands by what he says you should buy a car from me.
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Old 12-31-2009, 02:17 AM   #13
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I just bought my own Ti... I believe I got a smoking deal but I still have about 2K invested in parts. It's all part of the negotiating process. If you are not a car person and you are not familiar with cars or problems associated with the particular car you are buying have it inspected by your mechanic or at the very least an independent mechanic. Spend extra and do a leak down and compression test. It is all vital info that can really get you a good deal on a car that needs work, or it can give you a little insurance that the car you are buying is not going to need a ton of work in the near future.

In my line of work I know everyone lies to me, hence I feel that most people in my personal life lie too. So I know for sure that the person who is selling me a used car is definitely lying to me about his car. This is one reason that I cannot bring myself to by a car over the internet sight unseen without know that it could be a complete hunk of junk.

LET THE BUYER BEWARE...

All that said... I have sold about 4 cars over the internet. From ebay to autotrader, and have always been very accurate about the condition of the cars. Maybe too accurate. But I still get that sinking pit in my stomach when the person has just bought one of my cars and is driving away... What if my car that has been so reliable to me, just decides to break down on the way home?
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Old 12-31-2009, 03:35 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xtahoex View Post
I just bought my own Ti... I believe I got a smoking deal but I still have about 2K invested in parts. It's all part of the negotiating process. If you are not a car person and you are not familiar with cars or problems associated with the particular car you are buying have it inspected by your mechanic or at the very least an independent mechanic. Spend extra and do a leak down and compression test. It is all vital info that can really get you a good deal on a car that needs work, or it can give you a little insurance that the car you are buying is not going to need a ton of work in the near future.

In my line of work I know everyone lies to me, hence I feel that most people in my personal life lie too. So I know for sure that the person who is selling me a used car is definitely lying to me about his car. This is one reason that I cannot bring myself to by a car over the internet sight unseen without know that it could be a complete hunk of junk.

LET THE BUYER BEWARE...

All that said... I have sold about 4 cars over the internet. From ebay to autotrader, and have always been very accurate about the condition of the cars. Maybe too accurate. But I still get that sinking pit in my stomach when the person has just bought one of my cars and is driving away... What if my car that has been so reliable to me, just decides to break down on the way home?
Sad. So you expect it then you must also be one of those that hides and lies about issues with cars. Thats bull, I've never had that sinking pit guy feeling when selling my old cars, because, I know they were either great or I told them to expect problems. Cars dont just start falling apart for nothing the next day after the sale if you know they've been good. I dont eff around, if it ends low I say, fine, Im not that hard up or bent on making the most, Im not that pathetic state or mind or greed. I tell them everything, let the chips fall, lets talk and be real about it, no bull****. If you want to lead that path in life, thats your responsibility.

2k in parts for mod-ding and tuning and so forth, probably angel eye-ing. My repairs were to fix problems CLEARLY hidden or never told to me at the moments I was buying the car and or checking it out. Yes, I think with all the problems if there were any, what accidents I had in it, what and how many times repaired, give them the receipts and if told about them, I should have paid around 1k give or take. Why, because what if I lie to them and tell them the cars transmission or brakes are not 100% and that person(s) has an accident? Or has to already invest so much to repair it. Its selfish and extremely effed up.

Apparently its 100% my fault. I do take a certain responsibility, I accept that and have fixed the car so its a good car now, I properly had it repaired instead of effing it up or skimping on supposed pricey repairs with aftermarket crap. Its the hiding and playing it off by the seller that really infuriates me. If you dont get that, then that says a lot about you.

I have more to say about this so, I'll post later. But no one has asked WHO it is, or his real name, would you recommend I state his name and member name?

Last edited by SNOWti; 12-31-2009 at 03:42 AM.
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Old 12-31-2009, 03:39 AM   #15
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Although I agree with you if you feel like the seller wasn't truthful or honest.
I say: "Take the high road"

Trust me, It ALWAYS works and makes you feel better.
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