standalone?

[marko]

someone, please educate me on standalones!

I'm sick & tired of the bull**** program in my car... I know for a fact that the motor can perform sooooo much better if I had a tune specifically designed for my engine attributes.

which companies make them (know about megasquirt) / how much are they / what does it take to install them / how hard is to program them??

JohnBoy, I know you are out there! LOL

[Bluebimma]

I started going standalone last year, m50nv+T3/4, here are a few links of places i used.

http://www.diyautotune.com/
http://www.megamanual.com/v22manual/mturbo.htm
http://www.msefi.com/index.php

[marko]

wow.. lots of reading! good stuff...

thanks man!

Originally Posted by Bluebimma

I started going standalone last year, m50nv+T3/4, here are a few links of places i used.

http://www.diyautotune.com/
http://www.megamanual.com/v22manual/mturbo.htm
http://www.msefi.com/index.php

[mohaughn]

Megasquirt works, but it is kind of a hack job.. I think their solutions are getting better, and some of the pre-assembled boards are looking much better now than they used to.

Tuning will cost you the same as having somebody tune your bosch DME. Dyno time and tuner cost are pretty much the same regardless of the system. The only way to save somewhat on tuning costs is to make sure that your tuner knows your standalone system very well so they don't have to spend time figuring things out. If you go with MS, just make sure the tuner knows MS...

AEM, Motec, etc.. are the usual suspects for standalones. The based systems run from 1000-3000, figure a couple hundred bucks if you have somebody else install it, and then a few hundred to a grand or more for dyno/tune time. As with anything, they more of the work you do yourself, the cheaper it gets..

I'm not sure why you wouldn't be able to put some good data logging on your current setup and have one of the standard E36 tuners work something up for you. I guess the big question is what can a standalone do for you that the stock computer with a custom tune can't?

For instance, standalones were pretty popular for the full blown race S54s, but once the tuners cracked the S54 ecu, there really isn't a reason to run the standalone unless you want to use some of the custom features like launch control, or the more advanced turbo features that the AEM and motec units have.

[marko]

Originally Posted by mohaughn

I'm not sure why you wouldn't be able to put some good data logging on your current setup and have one of the standard E36 tuners work something up for you. I guess the big question is what can a standalone do for you that the stock computer with a custom tune can't?

For instance, standalones were pretty popular for the full blown race S54s, but once the tuners cracked the S54 ecu, there really isn't a reason to run the standalone unless you want to use some of the custom features like launch control, or the more advanced turbo features that the AEM and motec units have.

I wasn't familiar with AEM or Motec, since I always thought that BMW software is proprietary, and so past Nick G, there wasn't much out there.

Basic reason for wanting to go standalone, is cause I think I'm starting to experience detonation (specially on hot days & after a long 'stop & go' stints - & only between 3K & 4K rpm). Also, I also get bouts of 'lean' periods (even going 'limp' on one occasion), that I cant explain (pulled the plugs after a a few particularly bad runs & they were way off / orange and spotted).

These, detonation / mixture / timing issues come & go - but are getting more frequent as the weather is getting warmer. Strangely enough, car runs GREAT when cold & damp out - but like crap when warm & dry out.

I cant intelligently (or in a better way) explain any of the above, but I know its there & I know its due to a less than adequate 'tune'.

i.e. standalone.

I am however, open to ALL suggestions & will look into AEM & Motec. Thanks for that...

[xxxJohnBoyxxx]

Marko does it run good at night?

I think your getting heat soak. The DASC has no intercooling so we cheat with the methanol kit. During the summer the outside air is already hot and when you boost at very high levels like you are it gets so hot it causes big issues that methanol can not overcome.

You might need to step down a pulley size over the summer to reduce boost.

If you are getting detonation your knock sensor will kick in and you will get 3 flashes on the CEL then the DME will reset adaption values. A ping will retard timing.

I had issues with heat soak when I ran the small pulley during summer and was in traffic so I always drove easy. During the night when it was a little cooler and no traffic there was no heat soak so the motor ran better.

My car with the DASC ran way better in the winter due to the cooler weather. All boosted applications run way better in cooler weather.

A stand alone might not be able to do any better...Just my opinion

[marko]

Originally Posted by xxxJohnBoyxxx

Marko does it run good at night? I think your getting heat soak. The DASC has no intercooling so we cheat with the methanol kit. During the summer the outside air is already hot and when you boost at very high levels like you are it gets so hot it causes big issues that methanol can not overcome. You might need to step down a pulley size over the summer to reduce boost. If you are getting detonation your knock sensor will kick in and you will get 3 flashes on the CEL then the DME will reset adaption values. A ping will retard timing. I had issues with heat soak when I ran the small pulley during summer and was in traffic so I always drove easy. During the night when it was a little cooler and no traffic there was no heat soak so the motor ran better. My car with the DASC ran way better in the winter due to the cooler weather. All boosted applications run way better in cooler weather. A stand alone might not be able to do any better...Just my opinion

John, I think you hit the nail on the head... I cant fully explain, but YES, it has to do a lot with ambient temp.
Car runs trouble free when colder out. We had an extremely hot day a few weeks ago (record 92F!) and after a long commute, the car started studdering, & it would barely idle (no CEL, though). Pulled the plugs the next day & they were ORANGE & spotted - lean I think. It went 'limp'...

Days following it, it settled back to normal... BUT even the powder coated valve cover is blistering on certain spots.
I am convinced the car is running at its highest acceptable heat levels.

Spoke to Teddy, who confirmed the 'rattle' I hear is detonation... he suggested I up the meth level, which I did by having it activate on 8-9 PSI (vs. 11).

Read the Bentley manual, & came up with following reasons:
-Car running hot (my gauge reads dead center)
-Low octane fuel
-Timing too advanced (reason 1 for standalone), BUT it should throw CEL
-Mixture too lean (reason 2 for standalone), BUT it should throw CEL

I know you said try smaller pulley, but I really want to try & avoid that - & will use it as a last resource. In the meantime, I'll try the following, & in this order:
-Reduce the coolant to water ratio from 50/50 to 30/70 & add Water Wetter (done this morning!).
-Add octane boost or get CAM2 gasoline and see what happens
-Use colder plugs than current Iridiums (still have the new unused Autolites you suggested!)

If none of it works...
-Drive to MO & see Teddy LOL
OR
-Drive to FL & see you LOL

Otherwise, I'll take it easy in the summer - till I figure out how to get MORE fuel into the chamber.

Seriously though - I hope all is well with you & that you are dealing with the loss of your dad in a good way (if there is such a thing)... One day in the future, when you have your affairs settled, I would much like to give you a call & go over a few things.

Lastly.. I saw this! Wonder if this would help & if it exists for our cars? When my car was studdering a few weeks ago, it almost felt like like a few years back when my MAF went bad (also in the summer).

http://www.vectormotorsports.com/ind...mart&Itemid=28

[xxxJohnBoyxxx]

Colder plugs will definate help with the issue. Go 1 step colder for sure also up the meth for sure. Sorry I didn't say that earlier.

[xxxJohnBoyxxx]

Marko I've got a question for you. Idle quality?

Is the bad idle gone when you run your air conditioner?

Mine is perfect when my air is on....how about you?

If yours is good I think my SAP simulator is the cause for this and we are the only ones running this with Mark D's code so I need to know...


Let me know and I'm going to do a test, but if yours is still jacked up with your air conditioner on then I won't. Thanks, John S

I will explain when I get your answer

[marko]

Originally Posted by xxxJohnBoyxxx

Marko I've got a question for you. Idle quality?

Is the bad idle gone when you run your air conditioner?

Mine is perfect when my air is on....how about you?

If yours is good I think my SAP simulator is the cause for this and we are the only ones running this with Mark D's code so I need to know...


Let me know and I'm going to do a test, but if yours is still jacked up with your air conditioner on then I won't. Thanks, John S

I will explain when I get your answer

John, sorry, I wouldn't be able to tell... only because I never re-charged the system since I got the car back.

One thing about the idle though... when cold, it does not like to stay @ 900 (or whatever it is). Before it reaches an optimal temp, it tends to drop / dip (but never actually stalls) to very low rpms (almost like surging) when you come to a stop light. You almost have to give it a little gas so it dont die.

Once warm, it does it MUCH less.. almost never in fact.

The SAP sim works fine from what I can tell.. the blue diode is on for about a min or so, then it goes away. Never a CEL nor error code for SAP, so far.

[xxxJohnBoyxxx]

Originally Posted by marko

John, sorry, I wouldn't be able to tell... only because I never re-charged the system since I got the car back.

One thing about the idle though... when cold, it does not like to stay @ 900 (or whatever it is). Before it reaches an optimal temp, it tends to drop / dip (but never actually stalls) to very low rpms (almost like surging) when you come to a stop light. You almost have to give it a little gas so it dont die.

Once warm, it does it MUCH less.. almost never in fact.

The SAP sim works fine from what I can tell.. the blue diode is on for about a min or so, then it goes away. Never a CEL nor error code for SAP, so far.

Ok maybe we need to just dial in your SAP simulator cause that will casue that wierd idle when cold. The DME is reading the O2 of the SAP sim not your O2's. Mine is when I'm warm. Mine is good then when I'm warn it's all over the board until I turn on the air which makes the DME switch to a different map on the DME code. I think the SAP is messing up my adaption values so I'm going to disconnect it for a week and see if that clears up the issue. If it does then I will know it is the SAP simulator...

Just a thought...IDK but I know another person that is running my exact motor spec and code without my simulator and it runs perfect with no adaption errors or idle issues. So I need to track that down and eliminate what I have added which is the SAP simulator...

[marko]

Here are the codes I pulled the very day it went limp / lean...

175 / P1511 AF Intake Pipe Change Over
115 / P0100 Air Flow Sensor
026 / P0170 Mixture Adaptation Multiplic Part Load

211 / P0330 Knock Sensor
210 / P0325 Knock Sensor

Called Teddy immediately & we agreed that first 3 were there since day one - all due to adaptation.

The knock sensor ones were new, BUT Teddy said its probably due to the sensors picking up the rattle / detonation... I ordered new ones, but never replaced them.

Let the car sit for a week (went on vacation) with the battery disconnected. When I came back, the car drove Ok, as long as it was cold out.

Limp mode never came back to this date... just the heat soak syndrome when HOT out.

[xxxJohnBoyxxx]

Ok had me worried about that ASC but Metric was on top of that.

If your having idle issues when the car is cold is most likely the SAP simulator. It is sending the wrong value to the DME and jacking up the fuel value for cold running. It's a some-what easy fix if you know where they put the SAP sim box and know how to use a digital multimeter. I need to get a good value from a car running a real air pump which I never had so I just guessed that it was 200mv. It might be 300-400mv and I made these with a pot so they are adjustable so we can tune them. I will get a good value off a car and set the base-line then we can tune these and no more issues.

Sorry but they are experimental. I will work to correct this.

Best, John Smith

[marko]

Originally Posted by xxxJohnBoyxxx

Ok had me worried about that ASC but Metric was on top of that.

If your having idle issues when the car is cold is most likely the SAP simulator. It is sending the wrong value to the DME and jacking up the fuel value for cold running. It's a some-what easy fix if you know where they put the SAP sim box and know how to use a digital multimeter. I need to get a good value from a car running a real air pump which I never had so I just guessed that it was 200mv. It might be 300-400mv and I made these with a pot so they are adjustable so we can tune them. I will get a good value off a car and set the base-line then we can tune these and no more issues.

Sorry but they are experimental. I will work to correct this.

Best, John Smith

no probs man.. all good. let me know what you come up with.
not that worried abut the idle - just wanna eliminate the heat soak bs.

roadrash - sorry we hijacked your thread.

[xxxJohnBoyxxx]

Originally Posted by marko

Here are the codes I pulled the very day it went limp / lean...

175 / P1511 AF Intake Pipe Change Over
115 / P0100 Air Flow Sensor
026 / P0170 Mixture Adaptation Multiplic Part Load

211 / P0330 Knock Sensor
210 / P0325 Knock Sensor

Called Teddy immediately & we agreed that first 3 were there since day one - all due to adaptation.

The knock sensor ones were new, BUT Teddy said its probably due to the sensors picking up the rattle / detonation... I ordered new ones, but never replaced them.

Let the car sit for a week (went on vacation) with the battery disconnected. When I came back, the car drove Ok, as long as it was cold out.

Limp mode never came back to this date... just the heat soak syndrome when HOT out.

My suggestion and please ask Teddy. 1 step colder on plugs. also step up Meth. Turn it on at 7 psi and full dump by 10 psi