ASC+swap = challenge? Explain?

[96cali]

So I understand what ASC+T does in our cars and some of the mechanical components. But what is the challenge involved in swapping a motor from another ASC+T equipped car into another ASC+T equipped Ti?

Background: ASC+T uses the ABS system to reduce wheel spin by pulsing the brakes below 20 and 60 mph. ASC+T also utilizes a throttle control valve/damper to slow the engine and reduce torque to the drive wheels. This prevents essentially gunning the engine and ABS pulsing like crazy. Combine this with an electronic controller and a bunch of algorythms and voila... ASC+T.

The M52 motor in question comes from a 1998 Z3 2.8 equipped with ASC+T. I am being offered the ASC module as well as the motor/trans/harness (not sure about DME or EWS). What do I need to get ASC to work with this motor?

Please do not debate the merits of ASC, not the place here.

Thanks!

[tiFreak]

I think the problem is that non-ti's have a much more complicated ACS system with a lot more sensors

[marko]

sounds complicated... I, however, am deleting mine altogether - as I find it a real PITA.

Originally Posted by 96cali

So I understand what ASC+T does in our cars and some of the mechanical components. But what is the challenge involved in swapping a motor from another ASC+T equipped car into another ASC+T equipped Ti?

Background: ASC+T uses the ABS system to reduce wheel spin by pulsing the brakes below 20 and 60 mph. ASC+T also utilizes a throttle control valve/damper to slow the engine and reduce torque to the drive wheels. This prevents essentially gunning the engine and ABS pulsing like crazy. Combine this with an electronic controller and a bunch of algorythms and voila... ASC+T.

The M52 motor in question comes from a 1998 Z3 2.8 equipped with ASC+T. I am being offered the ASC module as well as the motor/trans/harness (not sure about DME or EWS). What do I need to get ASC to work with this motor?

Please do not debate the merits of ASC, not the place here.

Thanks!

[J!m]

Compare wiring disgrams of both cars and all will be clear to you...

[96cali]

Well, since I barely know the difference between a resistor and a rottweiler maybe you can give me the readers digest version? Consider it preliminary trouble shooting with the manual I just bought.

And where would I find the wiring diagrams for the Z3 2.8 and the Ti? ETK? TIS? Real OEM? Never looked for these.

Since ASC+T also controls (or activates) the ABS does it deactivate the ABS too? I don't think that's right so how does the ABS remain active? I do need some kind of diagram to understand all this I must admit. Real OEM just shows individual components.

[96cali]

Originally Posted by marko

sounds complicated... I, however, am deleting mine altogether - as I find it a real PITA.

There is a write up on bf.c to wire in a 10 ohm resistor to fool the system into thinking ASC is still present if you get an ABS fault code.

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...=742586&page=2

[J!m]

Well, the factory wiring diagrams are safely in my possesion...

If you PM me your name and manual serial number, I will give you copies of the ti diagram for your year ti (please specify) as well as the donor car of your choice.

If you want more diagrams, they are $10.00 each.

I just got these recently, so I may not have been able to offer them to you when you got your manual. The ti ones are also shown on here somewhere, if you want to search for them. BMW ETD (Electrical Troubleshooting Diagrams)

Check the For Sale section for a complete list of what I have available.

OK, Cliff's notes version:

As far as I can ascertain from my personal experience, the ASC+T in the ti DOES NOT actually activate the ABS. Have you ever heard the ABS pump cycle when the light was on, and the throttle was being closed down? Me neither. In the M3, it does in fact work as you state. In the ti, it simply closes down the throttle. A more simplified version, for BMW's cheapest car offering. Marketing kept the "+T" on the end as far as I can tell.

Because of this rather major difference, the ASC system in the M3 utilizes six communication lines, whereas the ti uses only four (or something like that- I looked into this carefully many years ago, and once I realized what would need to be done, I abandoned the idea...). This is also why it will NEVER work with a ti harness in a ti- the support simply is not there to make it happen.

The only way to make this work (also stated in the manual) is to replace the ENTIRE harness with the one from the donor M3. Every module has to come over as well of course, and the mechanicals with any differences, so the ABS pump I am sure will have to move etc. I mean, it IS possible to add all the wires and change all the modules to make it work, but it will literally take weeks of planning and research to make it work. Resistors will not be needed, however.

Basically, you take an M3 and replace everything but the engine, trans and front suspension with ti parts. THAT should work.

I have yet to see anyone crazy enough to try it... (But if you do, I'm interested to hear your experiences!)

[96cali]

Jim- I am traveling right now and don't have my swap manual serial number, but I just bought it from you 3 weeks ago. Can I forward back your "thank you for your purchase" email to me? If that's sufficient just reply to the email I will send.

The cars in question are my 1999 318ti (build date 12/98) and a 1998 Z3 2.8 (build date 11/97). My hope is that the lesser-than-M system may be more compatible with the Ti. If you have a chance to compare the diagrams before sending I would appreciate the input.

Thanks, Phil

[J!m]

Tried to e-mail them but I think it will bounce (10 meg total).

If you don't get them let me know and I'll have to burn a CD for you.

[96cali]

Originally Posted by J!m

As far as I can ascertain from my personal experience, the ASC+T in the ti DOES NOT actually activate the ABS. Have you ever heard the ABS pump cycle when the light was on, and the throttle was being closed down? Me neither...

Basically, you take an M3 and replace everything but the engine, trans and front suspension with ti parts. THAT should work.

I have yet to see anyone crazy enough to try it... (But if you do, I'm interested to hear your experiences!)

When accellerating in snow, etc and traction control activates, I hear a clunk/click which I always thought was ABS. Sounds like it's from the rear- could that just be the throttle control?

Also, Autowxrwgn was able to retain ASC be transferring the partial front body harness from his donor M3.

[J!m]

Could be diff clutches slaping, could be loose drive line components...

The "Rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr" under the hood fro the ABS pump you hear when braking on bumpy road is the sound I would expect... Not a clunking in the rear.

[96cali]

Hmmm... same exact sound in my '99 Ti as my '96 Ti so I doubt it's a mechanical failure. Where is a snow bank when I need it??

Def though a clunk/click, different than the ABS rrrrrrrrrrrrr.

[J!m]

My '98 ti says "ASC" not ASC+T, so I'm sure this feature is not in my car.

Since the side air bags came on line in '99, it is possible they up-graded the traction control; however I seriously doubt it, sinc eht side air bag connections are in the door of my '98, and therefore the harness most likley is the same too...

[BimmerBum]

Originally Posted by 96cali

The M52 motor in question comes from a 1998 Z3 2.8 equipped with ASC+T. I am being offered the ASC module as well as the motor/trans/harness (not sure about DME or EWS). What do I need to get ASC to work with this motor?

I just want to compliment your engine choice. The 2.8 M52 from a Z3 might just be the perfect engine for the ti. You can stick M3 cams in it, M50 intake manifold, 3.5 hfm... It is a very tunable engine... an S52 with lower displacement. But the best part! It weighs 100lbs less due it its aluminum block.

[96cali]

thanks! I think it's more like 60 lb but if/when I attempt this I intend toweigh the car f/r before and after. I am wondering if I could remain the same weight with an AL block and a carbon hood.