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Old 07-01-2006, 07:58 PM   #1
robcarync
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Default thinking about transmission swap...

First of all, I know there are threads about this and I have searched and read on bf.c and have found some information but still had some questions.

I have regretted getting an auto transmission for some time now, and now I might have some sources for some cheap parts from an e36 being parted out, so im getting some information together so hopefully I can get this done or at least start collecting parts to get it done in the future.

First off is a parts list...I have read the parts list on bf.c but seeing as its not ti specfic I wanted to make sure i have the right information:

Manual transmission
Flywheel
Clutch
Guibo
Shifter assembly
Pedal assembly/master cylinder/slave cylinder
Hard/soft lines
3.XX differential
Transmission mounts
Driveshaft
Transmission braces

I have collected this through posts from DustenT so I'm pretty sure it's accurate seeing as he did this swap, but I also had some questions about them.

1) Someone on the bf.c manual swap thread said getting a new differential wasn't necessary and he kept his stock one. So I was just curious if it is imperative to get a new differential or what would happen if I kept the stock one.

2) Also, someone in the thread said he just got his drive shaft lengthened at a shop for under 200 dollars and he didn't need to get a new one. Any opinons?

3) I have read on here and bf.c about the CEL staying on because the ECU is different for manual and automatic. Is there anyway to 'easily' fix this or is it easier to just leave it on. I have a scanner tool so I can eaisly scan to see if anything else is wrong, so I am not too worried.

4) What parts will fit the ti? Will any e36 manual transmission car have parts that will fit? I have a 95 with the m42 engine, so will that cause any fitment issues, or will the transmission and parts be the same for OBD II cars as well?

5) Any help with rewiring reverse lights. I think I read on here that they need to be rewired to work properly.

6) Where to start. I am not looking for step by step instructions or anything, but just what order should the parts be swapped out? I have a Bentley manual that will be lots of help in removing the parts. Are there any other parts that need to be removed to gain access to transmission parts and such. I'm just trying to figure out what all this job will require. I have read it will take anywhere from 10-60 hours, which is obviously a large range of time. I will have a better chance of swapping transmissions if I can do it myself with my pops, because I know we don't really want to pay a ton of money to a shop, $70/hour for up to 60 hours. This will be our largest automotive project ever attempted (if we actually get to try this), but I'm confident if I do enough research and get very well prepared we can get it done if we set aside a long weekend or so.

I am still in the very early stages of planning this. I am accumulating information to help with the convicing of my pops that this is a good idea. For all I know I may never even get to this, but I need to find as much information on it as possible, since my pops will probably end up helping with funding for this project.

I'm sorry if this stuff has been posted already. I did do a few searches and have found a lot of helpful information, but I just had a few extra questions I haven't figured out yet.

Thanks for any help guys, especially to Andyman for helping my find sources for parts.

=======

When I first mentioned a transmission swap to my pops, he flat out told me to stop thinking about it because it's never going to happen. Andyman sent me a few PM's with some people that have some parts, and I told my pops about it, and got him to sit down and hear me out. Now it is at a 'Let me talk to my buddy at work who has done some swaps on his cars. Let's figure out how big this job is first. I think we could probably get it done with the help of Mr. Bentley.'

So yeah, thanks Andyman!
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Old 07-03-2006, 12:56 AM   #2
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I regret buying an auto big time, and I've been gathering info for a while regarding a swap. Just last week, I started buying some parts, so I have a head start on when this GM tranny bites the dust. I've created a 318ti specific spreadsheet (with my own notes) in an attempt to list EVERY part needed for the 318ti. The list looks huge, but many are small bits and pieces that are included in larger assemblies. Shift Linkage and Pedal Sets have many small parts for example.

Save file as... (I hope this works) Converted from an Appleworks file for you PC folks.
http://www.geocities.com/threeiswee/5SpeedSwapexcel.xls

In the right hand column I've been typing in notes as I acquire parts.

I orginally searched for a pedal set from a 5/97 or newer car because they have a much cheaper clutch master cylinder. This would help when I need a new one. But, I found a full pedal set from a 3/97 318is complete with clutch master cylinder and hard fluid line for $42. For that $42 I also got the shift linkage, although some of the parts were not salvageable. Most were plastic stuff that should be renewed anyways.

Quote:
Originally Posted by robcarync
1) Someone on the bf.c manual swap thread said getting a new differential wasn't necessary and he kept his stock one. So I was just curious if it is imperative to get a new differential or what would happen if I kept the stock one.
I think you really would need the correct gearing (3.45) to have a daily driver car. 80mph would probably be 5,000 RPMS or something crazy. Also, the 1-2 shift would proably be so quick that it would be a big PIA. You certainly could try it though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by robcarync
2) Also, someone in the thread said he just got his drive shaft lengthened at a shop for under 200 dollars and he didn't need to get a new one. Any opinons?
I've seen on www.car-part.com used 318ti (manual) driveshafts for under $100. I'd just make sure the u-joint are still solid though. The center bearing is replaceable, so iwouldn't worry about it having a bad one. I'm even considering putting a new one in, as long as the "new" driveshaft is already out. PelicanParts to the rescue: http://www.pelicanparts.com/bmw/tech...ft_Bearing.htm

Quote:
Originally Posted by robcarync
3) I have read on here and bf.c about the CEL staying on because the ECU is different for manual and automatic. Is there anyway to 'easily' fix this or is it easier to just leave it on. I have a scanner tool so I can eaisly scan to see if anything else is wrong, so I am not too worried.
My plan is just to leave it alone. Some one on the bf.c thread laid out the full process for the ECU conversion/reprogram, but sounds like a BIG pain.

Quote:
Originally Posted by robcarync
4) What parts will fit the ti? Will any e36 manual transmission car have parts that will fit? I have a 95 with the m42 engine, so will that cause any fitment issues, or will the transmission and parts be the same for OBD II cars as well?
From what I understand, any getrag 5 speed from the E36 or E46 will fit. I plan on buying a Getrag from the newest E46 325i that I can find. Keep in mind, the Getrags from 4/98 or so where fixed internally from some manufacturing issue. I believe it was popping out of gear?? The ZF trannies are supposed to work too, but I guess you'd need a custom driveshaft. I dont think the normal gearshift linkage and carrier would fit either, so you'd have to find one from another car. (maybe a 328 or M3 one would fit?) I'm gonna stick with a Getrag to avoid all the hassle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by robcarync
5) Any help with rewiring reverse lights. I think I read on here that they need to be rewired to work properly.
The wiring seems very straightforward to me. So I would not worry too much. I used my Bentley manaul to find the correct wires. For the PRND switch bypass, I believe you just ground the Green/Grey (#5) wire to the Brown/Black (#7) wire.

For the reverse lights, I think you tap the 2-wire manual tranny reverse switch into the Green/White (#2) wire and Blue/Yellow (#3) wire.

All of the above wires are located in the A/T range switch just below the gear selector. You can see it if you pop off the gear selector cover.

Quote:
Originally Posted by robcarync
6) Where to start. I am not looking for step by step instructions or anything, but just what order should the parts be swapped out? I have a Bentley manual that will be lots of help in removing the parts. Are there any other parts that need to be removed to gain access to transmission parts and such. I'm just trying to figure out what all this job will require. I have read it will take anywhere from 10-60 hours, which is obviously a large range of time. I will have a better chance of swapping transmissions if I can do it myself with my pops, because I know we don't really want to pay a ton of money to a shop, $70/hour for up to 60 hours. This will be our largest automotive project ever attempted (if we actually get to try this), but I'm confident if I do enough research and get very well prepared we can get it done if we set aside a long weekend or so.
The Bentley has some good stuff when it comes to transmission service (seals/fluid) and clutch replacement. Although, PelicanParts.com has some great article with LOT of beautiful pics that show much of what you'll be working with.

Clutch Installation and transmission seal replacement:
http://www.pelicanparts.com/bmw/tech...ch_Replace.htm

Bleeding your newly installed clutch hydraulics:
http://www.pelicanparts.com/bmw/tech...utch_Slave.htm

Installing and rebuilding you newly aquired shift linkage:
http://www.pelicanparts.com/bmw/tech...t_Bushings.htm

Installing that brand new guibo:
http://www.pelicanparts.com/bmw/tech.../E36-Guibo.htm[/B]

I hope some of that helps. I'll try to post some more of the stuff I found over the past months. Maybe we can create a an "offical" 318ti swap thread over here too like the bf.c one. When I eventually do the swap I'd like to take a massive amount of pictures and post them. There seems to be a lack of photos over on the bf.c post.
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Old 07-03-2006, 04:46 AM   #3
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WOW that was a LOT of help! thanks a lot man.

my pops wants to hold off on the swap right now because his job is kind of in a sketchy situation....but he said that when the auto transmission goes out we will do the swap.

so it may be a while before i actually get around to this...but like i said, i want to make sure i am very well prepared and know the information ahead of time! you answered all of my questions greatly...thanks a ton!

aside from the actual transmission...what about other parts that will fit...like pedals/drive shaft/guibos/etc....are they all the same on all 5 speed e36's or are there any parts that are 318ti specific?
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Old 07-03-2006, 06:01 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robcarync
WOW that was a LOT of help! thanks a lot man.

my pops wants to hold off on the swap right now because his job is kind of in a sketchy situation....but he said that when the auto transmission goes out we will do the swap.

so it may be a while before i actually get around to this...but like i said, i want to make sure i am very well prepared and know the information ahead of time! you answered all of my questions greatly...thanks a ton!

aside from the actual transmission...what about other parts that will fit...like pedals/drive shaft/guibos/etc....are they all the same on all 5 speed e36's or are there any parts that are 318ti specific?
I'm in the same situation. I can't justify doing the swap until the auto fails. So i'm trying to collect the harder to find parts, so when the big day comes, I won't be scrambling to find parts. I found a junkyard that got in a wrecked 97 318is. Thankfully I found it before they cut it up, so I made some requests for parts and they were glad to sell the stuff. Most of this stuff they would normally throw away anyways, so they were happy with even a little bit of cash. Seriously, who buys used clutch and brake pedals? Unfortunately my junker got hit hard enough that the tranny crossmember and shifter arm broke

The driveshaft and differential are unique to the 318ti, but I think everything else is used in other cars.

• The shift selector rod and shifting arm (carrier); parts #9 and #1 respectively, are unique to the 318 series (318i,318is,318ic,318ti)



The actual shift lever is universal. There's a bunch of threads on that stuff here though. I think the Z3 1.9 lever sounds like a good choice and I'm gonna go with that one. The E46 325xi and 330xi used the same part too.

• The pedals / pedal carrier are universal, but there are some different versions. In 3/97 they switched to a different over-centering spring system for the clutch pedal. I assume the newer one is better? Maybe? They all should work in all E36s'.

• The guibo is the same one used on most E36s, E46s and Z3s, so that'll be easy to find. I'd buy a brand new one though.

• The shift boot is 318ti specific, and a bit hard to find used. But that's just cosmetic.

• The clutch master cylinders (CMC) are universal, but I think there are at least three different revisions over the years. The first had the hard clutch line screw into the CMC, the second had a line the "plugged" into the CMC, but was very long physically, like the first one. If you read the bf.c threads, people are having a lot of issues connecting the clutch lines. I think they are using the older version CMCs. I those cases, the hard line connection is forward of the firewall, and difficult to access. The newest CMC (+5/97)is very short and allows you to connect/disconnect the hard line while still in the cabin. Here's a pic of the newest version. You can easily see and access the connection.


** From this website: http://www.users.fast.net/~slafredo/.../clutch_pedal/ **

See the word "cylinder" at the connection? That black plastic part is so long on my CMC that it's gonna stick all the way though that hole in the firewall.

• One more thing for now. There are different set-ups over the models and years for clutch hard/soft lines. I think we luck out a bit with the 318 series. There is just a hard line, and a soft line. Some of the other cars 323,328,M3 use a hard line, then soft line, then another hard line.

Some of those hard lines are quite pricey brand new, so look for used.
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Old 07-03-2006, 05:53 PM   #5
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I just completed my swap myself (and two friends) last weekend. You guys have definitely done your homework and have a good grasp on what is needed. Its definitely worth the work and planning, I love the car even more in this config.

Just a few things from experience:

- Grounding #5 and #7 pins from the auto selector WILL allow the car to start. It basically wires the car into "Park". Problem is, the Cruise Control won't engage in "Park". There are a couple different fixes for this on Bimmerforums.

- You have to change the diff. I threw in a 3.64, and I'm still at 4k rpms at 80mph. Really fast setup though.

- Leather shift boot is a pain to find. $45 at the dealer though.

Good luck with your swap. Feel free to ask me anything you want if you get stuck.
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Old 07-03-2006, 07:19 PM   #6
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I want to swap mine too ... this weekend, i read this thread and i said thanks for the info... i have all piece from a 98 TI, oo thanks for the info of the wire to star the engine
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Old 07-03-2006, 07:30 PM   #7
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reminds me...

MUST get gbox fluid changed, MUST get gbox fluid changed, MUST get gbox fluid changed, MUST get gbox fluid changed, MUST get gbox fluid changed, MUST get gbox fluid changed, MUST get gbox fluid changed, MUST get gbox fluid changed,!!!!
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Old 07-03-2006, 07:34 PM   #8
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Stormos remember

MUST get gbox fluid changed, MUST get gbox fluid changed, MUST get gbox fluid changed, MUST get gbox fluid changed, MUST get gbox fluid changed, MUST get gbox fluid changed, MUST get gbox fluid changed, MUST get gbox fluid changed,!!!! joke
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Old 07-03-2006, 07:37 PM   #9
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auto slush box
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Old 07-03-2006, 07:39 PM   #10
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I'd actually like to find a diff with a lower ratio than the stock 3.45. For example, some of the Euro 318tis had 3.38 diffs.

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...85&hg=33&fg=05
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Old 07-03-2006, 07:49 PM   #11
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CirruSR22.. i want to swap this week i know that the perfect diff is the manual, but i have 19" wheels , what is better in my case 4.10 or 3.45??
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Old 07-03-2006, 07:51 PM   #12
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sweeet....you guys have lots of information handy....thanks a lot!

one quick question for cirrus though...when you were talking about the CMC, i understood what you mean, but the picture you referenced has the label slave cyldiner...so was that paragraph about the CMC or the CSC?
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Old 07-03-2006, 08:30 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robcarync
sweeet....you guys have lots of information handy....thanks a lot!

one quick question for cirrus though...when you were talking about the CMC, i understood what you mean, but the picture you referenced has the label slave cyldiner...so was that paragraph about the CMC or the CSC?
Oh, haha! I didn't even notice that was labeled incorrectly. I was talking about the CMC the whole time. I should edit that guys picture

EDIT: That took care of it.
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Old 07-03-2006, 08:42 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FATHER
CirruSR22.. i want to swap this week i know that the perfect diff is the manual, but i have 19" wheels , what is better in my case 4.10 or 3.45??
What size tires are you running? If they are the stock circumference, a 4.10 diff would have you running about 3850 RPM at 70 mph and 4400 RPM at 80mph. The acceleration would be good, but I don't think I could stand cruising at near 4500 RPM for long distances though. Not to mention how crappy the fuel mileage would be.

BUT, being in Puerto Rico, are you driving on a lot of freeways? I don't even know what it's like there. If it's all "slower", urban areas, a 4.10 might be fun.
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Old 07-03-2006, 09:09 PM   #15
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Here's the CMC that I have with my pedal set. You can see how much longer the "nozzle" part is compared to the other picture.



Also, here's how that hard line attaches to the CMC. Before I bought these parts I had a hard time visulizing how this all went together. So maybe these pics will help someone out.

The parts.

--
All together.


There's a little U shaped wire/clip that slides into the slots in the CMC. It keeps the hard line from pulling out.
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