 » Site Navigation | | | | » Recent Threads | | | | | 1999 M3 Swap 09-07-2023 10:10 PM 06-01-2024 03:04 PM 7 Replies, 410,070 Views | | | My 318ti build 05-21-2024 04:48 PM 05-28-2024 06:42 PM 1 Replies, 3,953 Views | | | OMG!OMG! 05-28-2024 08:53 AM 05-28-2024 08:53 AM 0 Replies, 1,653 Views | |  |  |  | |  01-24-2006, 05:00 PM | #1 | | Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Manassas, VA Posts: 4,129 |  Can we mod this?
__________________ 
1998 (July) 318ti, 5-spd
OEM Armrest Blaupunkt Heidelberg CD50 CD Player/Compact Drive MP3 Player Diamond Audio 5.25" rear speakers Navman ICN 530 GPS BMWALARM.COM (with comfort settings) after market alarm system Magnecor 8.5mm wires M-Z3 Shifter/Momo Knob Burlwood Dashboard Stromung Exhaust X-brace Racing Dynamics Front Strut Bar Carbonio C.A.I. 17" Rial Rims Vader Seats/Heated/Lumbar Support M-tech Steering Wheel/Front Sway Bar/Front & Rear Bumper Depos/w 6500K Angel Eyes/6000K HIDs Clear Corners M3 Mirrors UUC Light Weight Flywheel/M5 Clutch/M3 Clutch Slave E28 3.46 LSD/Mcoupe Cover/E30 Flanges & Halfshafts UUC S.S. Brake/Clutch Lines Hartge Roof Spoiler BavAuto Springs Bilstein Sport Struts/Shocks E46 M3 Rear Shock Mounts SPC Front Camber Kit Reiger Hatch Spoiler BavAuto Rear Camber Kit Dinan Stage II Software Turner Rear Sway Bar Reinforcements BMW E46 Auto dimming mirror with Clown Nose alarm Engine Compartment Light Heated Wiper Fluid Retrofit OEM Fire Extinguisher Da'lan Trailer Hitch Rear Sun Shade OEM Fog Light Retrofit H & R MZ3 Rear Sway Bar/ UUC Adjustable End Links Cruise Control Retrofit On Board Computer Retrofit M3 twistie style side skirts Carbon Fiber Hood |  |  | | 01-24-2006, 05:03 PM | #2 | | doesn't care about you. Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 3,925 |
I think that would work good on a DASC's Ti, it doesn't have the dual chambers like the stock ti one does. You would also need adaptors because it's a larger diameter (by 1/2" I think). __________________ 
'99 Dinan M3 | | | | | 01-24-2006, 05:11 PM | #3 | | aka Stabby Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Mead, CO Posts: 5,336 |
hmmmm ... who with a DASC (stage 3 most likely) wants to try this?  __________________ 1996 318ti, California package, 267k miles
current mods: bilstein sports, bavauto springs, e30 m3 LCABs, solid metal ball joints, bavauto RSMs w/reinforcements, e30 3.73 LSD & halfshafts, supersprint cat-back exhaust, turner rear sway bar reinforcements, IE poly subframe & RTABs + camber/toe kits, powdercoated e36 32x front calipers, sport mirrors, H&R 28mmF/19mmR sway bars, x-brace, auto solutions SSK w/poly bushing upgrade, BMW CD43 head unit, DICE HD Radio w/iPod integration and "stealth" HD antenna, staggered style 68s, orange electronic TPMS, leather arm rest, JT Designs metal undertray
acquired and awaiting install: heated seat kit, cali top switch relo, lumbar support kit, park distance control kit, heated washer nozzle kit, m-coupe rear subframe, trailing arms, differential, and halfshafts, m-coupe front/rear brakes with master cylinder, under hood light kit, mud flaps, rear sun blind, auto-dimming rear view mirror, tilt steering wheel retrofit, apexcone 5000K HIDs with 55W ballasts
2002 X5 4.4 Sport Package, 53.5k miles
Current Mods: e46 m3 steering wheel | | | | | 01-24-2006, 05:28 PM | #4 | | doesn't care about you. Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 3,925 |
Quote: | Originally Posted by cali-ti hmmmm ... who with a DASC (stage 3 most likely) wants to try this? | I'll do it, someone buy it for me! __________________
'99 Dinan M3 | | | | | 01-24-2006, 05:38 PM | #5 | | aka Stabby Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Mead, CO Posts: 5,336 |
how much will those phenolic gaskets be? if this thing stays at $50, maybe i'll get that for you and you give me a gasket when you have the template down __________________ 1996 318ti, California package, 267k miles
current mods: bilstein sports, bavauto springs, e30 m3 LCABs, solid metal ball joints, bavauto RSMs w/reinforcements, e30 3.73 LSD & halfshafts, supersprint cat-back exhaust, turner rear sway bar reinforcements, IE poly subframe & RTABs + camber/toe kits, powdercoated e36 32x front calipers, sport mirrors, H&R 28mmF/19mmR sway bars, x-brace, auto solutions SSK w/poly bushing upgrade, BMW CD43 head unit, DICE HD Radio w/iPod integration and "stealth" HD antenna, staggered style 68s, orange electronic TPMS, leather arm rest, JT Designs metal undertray
acquired and awaiting install: heated seat kit, cali top switch relo, lumbar support kit, park distance control kit, heated washer nozzle kit, m-coupe rear subframe, trailing arms, differential, and halfshafts, m-coupe front/rear brakes with master cylinder, under hood light kit, mud flaps, rear sun blind, auto-dimming rear view mirror, tilt steering wheel retrofit, apexcone 5000K HIDs with 55W ballasts
2002 X5 4.4 Sport Package, 53.5k miles
Current Mods: e46 m3 steering wheel | | | | | 01-24-2006, 06:28 PM | #6 | | doesn't care about you. Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 3,925 |
Quote: | Originally Posted by cali-ti how much will those phenolic gaskets be? if this thing stays at $50, maybe i'll get that for you and you give me a gasket when you have the template down | I need to get a hold of the rally guys yet to see if the gasket will actually do anything on a street car. The gasket will stop metal to metal heat soak, but does nothing for SC generated heat, or underhood heat soak. I'll price it out and see if it's worth it. __________________
'99 Dinan M3 | | | | | 01-24-2006, 06:34 PM | #7 | | aka Stabby Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Mead, CO Posts: 5,336 |
cool. the TB has a little over a day left on the auction so ... chop chop __________________ 1996 318ti, California package, 267k miles
current mods: bilstein sports, bavauto springs, e30 m3 LCABs, solid metal ball joints, bavauto RSMs w/reinforcements, e30 3.73 LSD & halfshafts, supersprint cat-back exhaust, turner rear sway bar reinforcements, IE poly subframe & RTABs + camber/toe kits, powdercoated e36 32x front calipers, sport mirrors, H&R 28mmF/19mmR sway bars, x-brace, auto solutions SSK w/poly bushing upgrade, BMW CD43 head unit, DICE HD Radio w/iPod integration and "stealth" HD antenna, staggered style 68s, orange electronic TPMS, leather arm rest, JT Designs metal undertray
acquired and awaiting install: heated seat kit, cali top switch relo, lumbar support kit, park distance control kit, heated washer nozzle kit, m-coupe rear subframe, trailing arms, differential, and halfshafts, m-coupe front/rear brakes with master cylinder, under hood light kit, mud flaps, rear sun blind, auto-dimming rear view mirror, tilt steering wheel retrofit, apexcone 5000K HIDs with 55W ballasts
2002 X5 4.4 Sport Package, 53.5k miles
Current Mods: e46 m3 steering wheel | | | | | 01-24-2006, 06:55 PM | #8 | | aka Stabby Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Mead, CO Posts: 5,336 |
sorry, didn't mean to steal your thread L8, but i think with the stock ti HFM (black tube/sensor in the intake path) being sized smaller than the M3 TB/ASC, i don't think it would matter. there was a discussion of a similar issue on the yahoo list with the stage 3 DASC kit which requires a larger HFM. i think this might work with the larger M3 HFM to allow better breathing. now as to whether that combo could also work on a stock ti, i'm not sure ... also not sure if you'd need NickG's NA M44 software to take advantage of it IF it would work. perhaps some people who actually know stuff about this could intelligently discuss it __________________ 1996 318ti, California package, 267k miles
current mods: bilstein sports, bavauto springs, e30 m3 LCABs, solid metal ball joints, bavauto RSMs w/reinforcements, e30 3.73 LSD & halfshafts, supersprint cat-back exhaust, turner rear sway bar reinforcements, IE poly subframe & RTABs + camber/toe kits, powdercoated e36 32x front calipers, sport mirrors, H&R 28mmF/19mmR sway bars, x-brace, auto solutions SSK w/poly bushing upgrade, BMW CD43 head unit, DICE HD Radio w/iPod integration and "stealth" HD antenna, staggered style 68s, orange electronic TPMS, leather arm rest, JT Designs metal undertray
acquired and awaiting install: heated seat kit, cali top switch relo, lumbar support kit, park distance control kit, heated washer nozzle kit, m-coupe rear subframe, trailing arms, differential, and halfshafts, m-coupe front/rear brakes with master cylinder, under hood light kit, mud flaps, rear sun blind, auto-dimming rear view mirror, tilt steering wheel retrofit, apexcone 5000K HIDs with 55W ballasts
2002 X5 4.4 Sport Package, 53.5k miles
Current Mods: e46 m3 steering wheel | | | | | 01-24-2006, 11:22 PM | #9 | | Moderator Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Bouncing off the rev limiter in CT! Posts: 3,156 |
Mass flow is tricky.
The way it works is the wire is heated by a known electrical current. As the wire temperature changes, it's resistance changes. (hotter = more resistance). So, if the resistance is high, the flow is low. Easy.
Knowing this, the fact that the bore is a known diameter (important tidbit) and the fact that moving air has a cooling effect on hot pieces of wire and also knowing the ambient air temperature, we can very accurately gage the mass flow of air.
If we plug in another mass-flow device, with a larger bore, the resistance of the wire at flow 'X' on the smaller device will NOT equal the resistance of the wire at the same flow through the larger device (for one thing, the air speed will be lower at the same volume through the larger opening- like puting your finger over the end of the hose: flow is the same, but speed is higher). In addition to the bore being larger, in most cases, the wire itself is longer, which changes the resistance by itself.
Custom software would be required to calibrate the resistance reading from the wire to the actual mass flow going through the device. Oterwise, the computer will inaccurately adjust the fuel flow. If the difference in resistance at the same mass flow was known, a simple plug-in unit to 'calibrate' the output of the larger device to what the ECU is expecting could overcome the problem.
I suspect the computer could eventually 'learn' what's going on, but I suspect a fault code (bad MAS) or damage to the engine would occur first. | | | | | 01-24-2006, 11:33 PM | #10 | | doesn't care about you. Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 3,925 |
Quote: | Originally Posted by J!m Mass flow is tricky.
The way it works is the wire is heated by a known electrical current. As the wire temperature changes, it's resistance changes. (hotter = more resistance). So, if the resistance is high, the flow is low. Easy.
Knowing this, the fact that the bore is a known diameter (important tidbit) and the fact that moving air has a cooling effect on hot pieces of wire and also knowing the ambient air temperature, we can very accurately gage the mass flow of air.
If we plug in another mas-flow device, with a larger bore, the resistance of the wire at flow 'X' on the smaller device will NOT equal the resistance of the wire at the same flow through the larger device (for one thing, the air speed will be lower at the same volume through the larger opening- like puting your finger over the end of the hose: flow is the same, but speed is higher). In addition to the bore being larger, in most cases, the wire itself is longer, which changes the resistance by itself.
Custom software would be required to calibrate the resistance reading from the wire to the actual mass flow going through the device. Oterwise, the computer will inaccurately adjust the fuel flow. If the difference in resistance at the same mass flow was known, a simple plug-in unit to 'calibrate' the output of the larger device to what the ECU is expecting could overcome the problem.
I suspect the computer could eventually 'learn' what's going on, but I suspect a fault code (bad MAS) or damage to the engine would occur first. | Yes, this is all correct. The 3" MAF that I'm installing goes with NickG's tuning software. The big question is: Will a larger M3 throttle body affect anything? It theoretically should allow more air flow and the MAF will detect that and make the proper adjustments. I wonder if the sensors on the throttle body are compatible? Like TPS and whatever else is on there. The ACS then becomes the restricting piece in the intake. I would remove it anyways. __________________
'99 Dinan M3 | | | | | 01-24-2006, 11:36 PM | #11 | | aka Stabby Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Mead, CO Posts: 5,336 |
sounds like an email to NickG is in order you want to do that Dusten (since you'd be trying it and you understand all this  ). __________________ 1996 318ti, California package, 267k miles
current mods: bilstein sports, bavauto springs, e30 m3 LCABs, solid metal ball joints, bavauto RSMs w/reinforcements, e30 3.73 LSD & halfshafts, supersprint cat-back exhaust, turner rear sway bar reinforcements, IE poly subframe & RTABs + camber/toe kits, powdercoated e36 32x front calipers, sport mirrors, H&R 28mmF/19mmR sway bars, x-brace, auto solutions SSK w/poly bushing upgrade, BMW CD43 head unit, DICE HD Radio w/iPod integration and "stealth" HD antenna, staggered style 68s, orange electronic TPMS, leather arm rest, JT Designs metal undertray
acquired and awaiting install: heated seat kit, cali top switch relo, lumbar support kit, park distance control kit, heated washer nozzle kit, m-coupe rear subframe, trailing arms, differential, and halfshafts, m-coupe front/rear brakes with master cylinder, under hood light kit, mud flaps, rear sun blind, auto-dimming rear view mirror, tilt steering wheel retrofit, apexcone 5000K HIDs with 55W ballasts
2002 X5 4.4 Sport Package, 53.5k miles
Current Mods: e46 m3 steering wheel | | | | | 01-24-2006, 11:43 PM | #12 | | Moderator Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Bouncing off the rev limiter in CT! Posts: 3,156 |
With forced induction, Idon't think you would see significant gains by changing the throttle body, but I don't think it would hurt either.
The blower is going to suck in the air either way. A larger throttle body and attached TPS may give slightly better perceived throttle prsponse as the throtle will be open to a lesser degree to allow the same volume of air through it. This effect will be essentially zero at full throttle; probably a log curve from 'zero effect' at full throttle to 'X effect' at minimum throttle.
I'm not sure how the TPS will come into play, but it may mess with the fuel metering a bit, particularly if the throtle body is indeed 1/2 diameter larger (that's a significant volume increase)...
For comparison (as I have no idea what the actual diamters are): 2.5 inch diameter has an area of 4.9087 sq. inches; whereas the 3.0 inch diamter has an area of 7.0686 sq. inches. nearly a 70% area increase... Huge difference! | | | | | 01-24-2006, 11:46 PM | #13 | | doesn't care about you. Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 3,925 |
Quote: | Originally Posted by cali-ti sounds like an email to NickG is in order you want to do that Dusten (since you'd be trying it and you understand all this ). | Nick hasn't returned any of my emails yet. I doubt he'd get back to me by tomorrow.... Didn't KO or somebody make an adapter for the m3 throttle body? If they do, I imagine it's an easy upgrade. Someone do a search, I have to run...... __________________
'99 Dinan M3 | | | | | 01-24-2006, 11:48 PM | #14 | | aka Stabby Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Mead, CO Posts: 5,336 |
lol ... i think that's the blob that AlaskaBlue bought i'll see what i can find. __________________ 1996 318ti, California package, 267k miles
current mods: bilstein sports, bavauto springs, e30 m3 LCABs, solid metal ball joints, bavauto RSMs w/reinforcements, e30 3.73 LSD & halfshafts, supersprint cat-back exhaust, turner rear sway bar reinforcements, IE poly subframe & RTABs + camber/toe kits, powdercoated e36 32x front calipers, sport mirrors, H&R 28mmF/19mmR sway bars, x-brace, auto solutions SSK w/poly bushing upgrade, BMW CD43 head unit, DICE HD Radio w/iPod integration and "stealth" HD antenna, staggered style 68s, orange electronic TPMS, leather arm rest, JT Designs metal undertray
acquired and awaiting install: heated seat kit, cali top switch relo, lumbar support kit, park distance control kit, heated washer nozzle kit, m-coupe rear subframe, trailing arms, differential, and halfshafts, m-coupe front/rear brakes with master cylinder, under hood light kit, mud flaps, rear sun blind, auto-dimming rear view mirror, tilt steering wheel retrofit, apexcone 5000K HIDs with 55W ballasts
2002 X5 4.4 Sport Package, 53.5k miles
Current Mods: e46 m3 steering wheel | | | | | 01-25-2006, 12:08 AM | #15 | | aka Stabby Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Mead, CO Posts: 5,336 |
yeah ... "M3 throttle body conversion kit" LOL ... i call it "the blob" http://www.318ti.org/forum/showpost....8&postcount=67 __________________ 1996 318ti, California package, 267k miles
current mods: bilstein sports, bavauto springs, e30 m3 LCABs, solid metal ball joints, bavauto RSMs w/reinforcements, e30 3.73 LSD & halfshafts, supersprint cat-back exhaust, turner rear sway bar reinforcements, IE poly subframe & RTABs + camber/toe kits, powdercoated e36 32x front calipers, sport mirrors, H&R 28mmF/19mmR sway bars, x-brace, auto solutions SSK w/poly bushing upgrade, BMW CD43 head unit, DICE HD Radio w/iPod integration and "stealth" HD antenna, staggered style 68s, orange electronic TPMS, leather arm rest, JT Designs metal undertray
acquired and awaiting install: heated seat kit, cali top switch relo, lumbar support kit, park distance control kit, heated washer nozzle kit, m-coupe rear subframe, trailing arms, differential, and halfshafts, m-coupe front/rear brakes with master cylinder, under hood light kit, mud flaps, rear sun blind, auto-dimming rear view mirror, tilt steering wheel retrofit, apexcone 5000K HIDs with 55W ballasts
2002 X5 4.4 Sport Package, 53.5k miles
Current Mods: e46 m3 steering wheel | | | | | |
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