Interesting sale here...

[jtkratzer]

OK, the car/parts for sale is/are a 1998 318ti with the M package, 5 speed, California top. The problem is that the car had an engine swap done before I bought it and before emissions testing was being done. The swapped engine is a solid, fully functional M42 engine. There's no mechanical way to get the camshaft position sensor for the M42 engine to work with the M44 DME and now that we've found that out, and the car doesn't have original equipment, I can't get a waiver for inspection and basically can't drive the car as is anymore. So, I'd like to sell the car to someone who is either interested in putting an M44 back in it, or to someone who'd like to pull the M42, sell that engine, or do whatever with it, and replace it with a 6 cylinder.

The odometer reads 139,000 miles, but I'm assuming that's what would be on the car had it still had the original M44. No clue on the miles for the M42 that's been in it since I bought the car. I put 50,000 miles on the car in the last 38 months. It has a new exhaust, the back half, not the catalytic converter, new upstream oxygen sensor, downstream oxygen sensor is less than 2 years (less than 30,000 miles) old, all new air hoses, spark plugs were replaced less than 10,000 miles ago. I replaced the windshield in July. The oil, air, and fuel filters have been changed regularly at the recommended intervals.

The car is currently in Ephrata, PA and I'm just curious as to whether or not anyone is interested in a complete car that needs an engine swap knowing that the engine in the car is solid and runs well, just can't keep things how they are to pass inspection/emissions.

How much is an M42 engine worth should I want to pull it and sell it separately?

If no one is interested in having anything to do with this car, I have the option of giving back to the dealer where I bought it as a "trade", but I'd like to sell it to get more than what I expect the dealer to offer me for it to recoup the nearly $3000 I've put into this car over the last year finding out about the engine swap.

I'd like to get around $5000 for the whole car as it is, but maybe that's completely unrealistic with all things considered.


Any ideas, offers, thoughts?

EDIT: Forgot to mention that the car has the working 6 disc CD changer and it also has the DSC traction control (which works wonders in the snow).

[jtkratzer]

[ssprint]

do you have by change an extra oil pan for a m42 engine?

[mohaughn]

$5,000 is probably unrealistic. That engine is atleast 12 years old, and absolutely no clue on what the original miles are. Not to mention what other problems could be lurking in a car where somebody put a backdated engine in. In my opinion that engine is very suspect as I'm suprised that the M42 even ran properly with the M44 ecu.

If the original dealer will work something out with you, take that deal. You'd be hard pressed to sell that car for anything more than a parts car. For all intensive purposes I'd think of it as a 1995 Ti with unknown mileage and overall poor condition. People that are looking to do a swap are not going to pay a premium for a rolling shell.

An m42 is worth about 500$ with unknown mileage and possibly other problems.

[96cali]

Justin how did the car run OK for 3 years? The cam sensor was placed "just so"? I'm trying to understand how you cannot trick the car again. Terrible story, would like to see you come out even somehow.

[jtkratzer]

That's what's strange about it, the car has run fine for the last 3 years. When Lancaster County started emissions testing and it went in last year, that's when I found the check engine light bulb had been pulled. I got a waiver last year after the shop "replaced" the cam sensor and it still didn't work. This year is when I found out basically everything I know about the car.

It's not a "rolling shell" at all. The car is in great shape. The body is fine, no rust, everything works. The AC is great, the heat is great, the heated seats are great. Everything is fine on the car except the camshaft position sensor won't work and even though I didn't know it, it never did from the day I bought it. Everything has been great about the car. I really enjoy driving it, I just don't want to go through the hassle of doing an engine swap myself. I'd love to keep the car but I can't. I can't get stickers for inspection/emissions for it because of the check engine light (cam sensor) nor can I get a waiver because the M42 engine is not an M44...had someone swapped it with another M44, I'd be fine, but that's, unfortunately, not the case.

There are 139,000 miles on the car, but you're right, the mileage on the engine is unknown. I'm not going to part the car out. I don't have a place to keep it as people want various parts from the car. It's either a complete car leaving for a new owner or it's going to the dealer. I have an appointment to see the owner on Thursday evening this week and I'll let you know what happens.

I can't "trick" the car...the only way to do that would be to pull the light out of the dashboard again and take it to a dealer that doesn't know it has had an engine swap and see if they're dumb enough to not find the swapped engine and give me a waiver.

To my knowledge, there are no other problems with this car. It has been well taken care of and well maintained. The M44 DME has a base timing programmed for the event of a bad/missing/whatever camshaft position sensor. That's what it's been running on for the last three years. It just isn't able to make minor adjustments based on the data from the sensor. Could it drive with better engine performance with the right sensor, definitely, but that doesn't mean it can't run at all.

Back to the point, the idea was to sell the car, which is in great shape, to someone knowing that an engine swap back to an M44 or the full job of going to a 6 cylinder was a requirement. The M42 could be sold or used for whatever you want. It's a solid engine and the head tech at Horrigan BMW in Reading, PA (where Mike Piazza picked up his Alpina Z8 and B7) said the engine is great and the car is completely mechanically sound. It's just one sensor that cannot communicate with the DME that leaves this car in the situation it's in. Call Jay at Horrigan BMW if you want to talk to this guy. He emailed back and forth with BMW's engineering department trying to get a depth setting for the analog sensor for the M42 to get a reading to communicate with the M44 DME. They said it can't be done. If you want to ask him about anything else about the car, call him...Horrigan BMW, (610) 777-1500, 1015 Lancaster Ave, Reading, PA.


If no one wants it, no big deal, it will go to the dealer. I just wanted to make it available. It's a nice car and I'm not trying to screw/scam anyone at all. I just want my loan paid off and I'd like to get even a portion of the money I spent on the car of the new parts, plugs, sensors, windshield, etc. to find out that it was spent in vain.

[96cali]

Originally Posted by jtkratzer

The M44 DME has a base timing programmed for the event of a bad/missing/whatever camshaft position sensor. That's what it's been running on for the last three years. It just isn't able to make minor adjustments based on the data from the sensor. Could it drive with better engine performance with the right sensor, definitely, but that doesn't mean it can't run at all.

Ahh, OK. It's really a certification issue for smog and such that prevents your long term driving? Any chance you can reclassify the car (a complete guess) and avoid the smog test? I was under the impression it only ran in a "limp home" mode or something but that is not the case at all right?

[jtkratzer]

Originally Posted by 96cali

Ahh, OK. It's really a certification issue for smog and such that prevents your long term driving? Any chance you can reclassify the car (a complete guess) and avoid the smog test? I was under the impression it only ran in a "limp home" mode or something but that is not the case at all right?

Right, it's been running the way it is now since I bought it in 2004. It runs fine, to the point that I never knew anything was wrong until I was told that the check engine light had been removed. Still drove ok...the only hiccup was a stutter that was fixed by a new coil pack and an upstream O2 sensor. Everything is fine. A set of ignition wires might improve things more, they have yet to be replaced since I bought the car, but I haven't had any trouble with them or any leaks.

[aceyx]

If you can find a buyer in a state that doesn't require emissions testing, this would be a great candidate for boost since the M42 has forged internals. Also, the body/frame looks pretty much perfect and there is a nice group of options.

However, 5K might be pushing it.

When you meet with the dealer, bring receipts and information of what you've done to try and get it up to spec. If they are not willing to help you out on that minus 3 years' depreciation, I hate to say it but you may want to hire a lawyer. That's really not something I recommend often, but here you were sold a car that violates Federal emissions regulations.

[keeneslaton]

I'm interested.

What is the interior color?

My phone number is 615-292-4781

Please send me your phone number so we can talk.
E-mail me at keeneslaton@hotmail.com.

Thanks,

Keene Slaton

[keeneslaton]

I meant to give my cell number.

615-416-2286

I'm interested.

Thanks again,
Keene Slaton

[jtkratzer]

My only concern with boosting the engine is that it's running in a base/default timing through the computer...your performance gains would probably be much better with the proper sensor. I don't know what the likelihood of swapping to an M42 DME working is, but perhaps that is an option. It's just not one I'm interested in.

The interior is identical to the one for sale in this thread, adding in that I have side airbags in the front. The color scheme is the same.

http://www.318ti.org/forum/showthread.php?t=18302

I have contemplated a lawyer and I have already contacted my local representative to find out what my options are as far as filing a complaint with the Attorney General. Should the dealer not cooperate to a degree where I'm satisfied, I will make him aware of the options I'm considering.

Any other input or questions?

[mohaughn]

From a legal perspective I would imagine that there are possibly two different angles you could approach. 1- is that the mileage had been tampered with, it should have been disclosed to you that the engine mileage was different, and 2- that they sold you a car that had federally required emissions equipment removed... M44 is OBDII, m42 is OBDI, you can't backdate it and still be street legal.

I think the really difficult part to either one of those is proving that the original car dealership knew about the problems. But if they claim that they do any kind of used car inspection then they should have easily found that the car had a CEL lit up, with the bulb pulled out. I would imagine that as soon as this thing was plugged into an OBDII scan tool that it let up with problems. I think you said the CEL light was removed in another post. Used car dealerships usually do a very good job at looking over cars. A buddy of mine owns a small used car dealership and the first thing he does on OBDII cars that he is thinking of taking as a trade-in is to run an OBD scan against it.

It's not a "rolling shell" at all.

I only made that comment because you had said if somebody wanted to buy the engine/car separately. The car looks to be in great shape, and it is unfortunate that some dishonest person has put you into this kind of situation.

I'm still amazed that the fuel mapping/timing, etc.. in the M44 DME works fine with an M42. I know they are very similar engines, but I would have expected you to have more problems. Maybe the base map that it is running off of gives a wide range of operation and that is why it has been working. Kind of sparks some ideas in my head as an easier way to do custom tuning on an M42. Replace the m42 DME with an M44 DME and then you can use the software that some other members have been working on to tune the bosch DME.

[jtkratzer]

Originally Posted by mohaughn

From a legal perspective I would imagine that there are possibly two different angles you could approach. 1- is that the mileage had been tampered with, it should have been disclosed to you that the engine mileage was different, and 2- that they sold you a car that had federally required emissions equipment removed... M44 is OBDII, m42 is OBDI, you can't backdate it and still be street legal.

I think the really difficult part to either one of those is proving that the original car dealership knew about the problems. But if they claim that they do any kind of used car inspection then they should have easily found that the car had a CEL lit up, with the bulb pulled out. I would imagine that as soon as this thing was plugged into an OBDII scan tool that it let up with problems. I think you said the CEL light was removed in another post. Used car dealerships usually do a very good job at looking over cars. A buddy of mine owns a small used car dealership and the first thing he does on OBDII cars that he is thinking of taking as a trade-in is to run an OBD scan against it.



I only made that comment because you had said if somebody wanted to buy the engine/car separately. The car looks to be in great shape, and it is unfortunate that some dishonest person has put you into this kind of situation.

I'm still amazed that the fuel mapping/timing, etc.. in the M44 DME works fine with an M42. I know they are very similar engines, but I would have expected you to have more problems. Maybe the base map that it is running off of gives a wide range of operation and that is why it has been working. Kind of sparks some ideas in my head as an easier way to do custom tuning on an M42. Replace the m42 DME with an M44 DME and then you can use the software that some other members have been working on to tune the bosch DME.

Well first things first, when I bought the car, it was only the mechanical/safety inspection that was done, no emissions. So, with the CEL not lit up, there was no reason to look further into it. No one knew. I doubt the dealership knew about the problems, that's where I'm stuck as far as getting the law involved. Also, with an air flow meter, the car can make pretty good adjustments with the computer for the mapping/fuel/etc.

I wasn't trying to sell the car and engine separately. I want to sell the whole thing to a buyer who knows that the engine needs swapped to an M44 or upgraded to a 6 cylinder. The car is in very good shape. I've seen better and worse, but I think mine is in very good condition for the miles and year. The biggest problem is that emission testing wasn't done when I bought the car. Also, when it was done the first time, and failed last year, the computer in the car would not display the fault codes because that CEL was not lit up and present. As soon as that bulb was replaced, the codes showed up in the computer for diagnosing error codes.

I appreciate the continued input and I will keep you all (y'all for the southerners, I can say that, I used to live in Arkansas, NC, and southern Maryland) posted on how everything works out.

[96cali]

Is it true you can disable fault code generation by removing a light bulb? I would be surprised but hey, it wouldn't be the first time.

My gut says the dealership ran a scan, saw the fault code but did not see it on the dash so they hushed up. Or, possibly, the sales person really did not know but someone in tech did. Sorry but I find it hard to believe a higher end dealer would not run a scan. But then again did you say you bought it before they even had a chance to detail it?