Let's build an autocross car (oong post!)

[IndianaTravis]

So here is the story. When I had my first ti, I wasn't autocrossing. I actually did my first autocross 1 week after I traded my ti for a Z3 back in 2000.

Since them, I've ran B stock in the Z3, STS in a 325Ci, and STX in a Mini Cooper S. Regionally, I was successful in each.

So now I have this '96 ti (active) and it is totally stock. I'm trying to figure out what to do with it, what class to run it in. I know my friend Brook Harmon ran his fairly successfully in DSP, before he destroyed it at Watkins Glen a couple years ago.

My options are:
G stock, STS, and DSP. I don't expect to win championships in any of these classes, but I'd like to be competitive locally.

I'm leaning heavily toward STS as it will allow me to run street tires, and save on the expense of one set of wheels. STS also will allow me to run larger wheels than the stock 15" spokes, and I can work on the suspension.

I don't have unlimited funds (or else this car would already have a six in it!) so we have to come up with reasonably affordable, bang for the buck upgrades.

I'm thinking of going with koni yellows or bilstein sports for the shocks, and probably H&R sport springs. Thoughts? I'm going to do the 'fogged' airbox mod, and eventually come up with something for an exhaust (there aren't any of those bosal systems still around, are there?)

I have no idea what swaybars to go with. I need opinions here.

I also want to do a brake upgrade, so I'm on the lookout for the '98 up vented front rotor setup, or even something more dramatic. Brook had a sweet setup off of an M Coupe on his car, but it really limited his wheel options.

Any and all advice from you folks who have been autocrossing these cars for up to 10 years is GREATLY appreciated!

Remember that this is my daily driver as well when you respond with your thoughts, please.......

[FMD]

STS is what I run, and its pretty fun. Always a popular class, so plenty of competition. In terms of suspension mods, I run koni shocks, vogtland springs, and eibach sways. This combo in conjunction with properly adjusted tire pressures (currently azenis rt-215, rt-615 coming soon) can provide for a very balanced setup with great turn-in and mild oversteer if you desire it.

After a year of running this setup I've found that the shoulders of my front tires are getting eaten up like none-other. Could use some negative camber in the front.

Stromung is a nice choice for exhaust, received a lot of compliments from other autoxers at events before. But shocks, springs, sways, and tires should make the most impact on your autocrossing success, aggressive brake pads are also a good choice.

[needle332rur]

I used to win DSP in the local events a lot. But when i get out to SCCA events I place in the midpack. Now i have a E30 M3 i'll be racing in CSP trying to show up the Miata boys.

[robcarync]

what is STS?

i just ask because im curious about getting into some autocross...just for fun, not really competing much, mainly for my own enjoyment.

and what is DSP and the classes and such?

sorry to hijack the thread

i just got curious when i read this

[IndianaTravis]

You can find the actual rules for the classes online, but a brief rundown:

http://www.scca.com/_filelibrary/Fil...categories.pdf

The ti is in G Stock, which happens to be the class for the MINI Cooper S - not good for the ti.

Looking at your signature, your car would be a DSP or STS car. To be truly competitive in either, it is going to be hard for a ti. In DSP, the Mini is still there, and also you have the 6 cylinder three series cars (and a whole lot more).

That really leaves STS as the most logical place. STS is typically dominated nationally by civics and such, because they have a weight advantage over pretty much everything else (and they can be made to handle quite well)

The big advantage of STS to me is that you can run street tires (you can run street tires in stock or DSP, but you are sacrificing 1-2 seconds to everyone else). Plus, most of us either have or want to lower our cars, run larger wheels, and do intake and exhaust. Exactly the sort of stuff you can do in STS.

You are in Cary NC, right? Check out the Central Carolina Region SCCA page and find out when their novice school is. I've instructed at it the last few years, although I'm up in Indiana now. It is a very good introduction to autocrossing. If you get serious, I'd recommend you read Watt's "Secrets of Solo Racing" at some point. Also, check out:

http://www.tirerack.com/features/solo2/handbook.htm

For LOTS of great information.


Needle - I almost bought your car, because it is modified pretty much exactly like what I want. I happened to find this lower mileage car closer to home, though. What would you say were the strengths and weaknesses of it as you have it set up?

[AlaskaBlue]

If you want to drive suspension worked ti you can PM me so you can get an idea of what it is like. If you havent already. I live about 45 min from Ft. Wayne.

[IndianaTravis]

We should get together sometime. I grew up in Muncie, went to Ball State, and go down there every couple weekends, it seems.

Do you autocross?

Thanks for the offer, too. I'll get in touch with you before I do anything. Won't be for a couple months, probably, because we are going to have a baby in a week or two and I'm going to be home a lot!

[John W]

Just some random thoughts:

I think there are a lot of possibilities for the 318ti in STS. I don't think you're going to win Nationals in one, but you should be able to make it very competitve locally. I run mine in STX because I have 8 inch wide wheels now (can't have more than 7.5), but I will be switching to STS soon. If you set your car up for STS, it will also be very competitive with its class for BMW CCA autocrossing. (I won my class the only time I've raced with the CCA.)

I'd go for Konis over Bilsteins. I have Bilstein Sports and they work fine, but Konis have better rebound dampening and the ability to make adjustments is a plus as well. I also have H&R race springs, which I am actually pretty pleased with for autocrossing. As for anti-roll bars, I have heard that pretty much all the well known after market bars work well, but I can't confirm anything, as I still have stock bars. The factory Club Sport bars are supposed to be a good upgrade as well.

I'm currently using Hankook Venturs RS-2s (215/45/17). I like them, but I bet the new Falken Azenis 615s would be even better.

Probably a good idea to run synthetic oil. A dyno test saw a 4.5 hp improvement at 4200 rpm, which is a great place to pick up a couple of hp for these cars, especially on most autocross courses.

I've never had problem with brake fade and the vented rotor upgrade is heavier, so I've decided to put that on hold for now.

[btschafer]

I've been campaigning a Ti in SCCA GS for quite some time. Cincinnati, WOR, OVR regions SCCA; Cendiv; and National. The Ti has been very successful locally, and this past year was the first in a while that I haven't won the region (came in second to a well driven Mini-S). Nationally, it isn't possible to do much better than mid-pack in a Ti against the Cooper S. That's about where I finished last year at SCCA Nationals. All things equal, I'd say the Ti is the third best GS car after the Cooper S and Celica. Still, the Ti raises quite a few eyebrows when it is driven well...and that's kind of fun.

My basic setup is as follows:
A big Eibach front sway bar from a 318i, set stiff.
15x7 Kosei K-1 Racing wheels, and either Hoosier S0x or Kuhmo V710s, 225x50x(45 or 50) for dry; or full tread Kumho Ecsta V700 for wet.
Hawk HP+ front pads (dirty and noisy on the street).
EBC GreenStuff rear pads.
Zero front toe; and as much negative camber as I can wrench out of it (about -1 degree is all that's legally possible).
Stock limited slip diff.
K&N drop-in air filter.
Custom SuperTrapp cat-back exhaust (mostly to drop some weight and make happy sounds).
Custom valved Koni adjustable shocks & struts with the rears set full stiff and the fronts at about the halfway point. Fine tune to get the necessary amount of rotation.
Mobil 1 engine oil; Red Line D4 ATF in tranny, and Red Line 75W90 Gear Oil in the differential.
Shroth harness (best bang-for-the-buck autox mod ever IMO).

All the usual autox stuff: remove floor mats, spare tire, drain washer fluid, etc. in order to reduce weight and be safe.

The Ti might do well in locally in ST, but have my doubts beyond that. It doesn't stand a chance against cars like the E30 325 in DSP. It's not even close...I think the Ti is wildly misclassed in DSP.

I may run the Ti again this year in GS...or I may run a BSP C4 Corvette instead...or I may turn the Ti into a SM monster...we'll see.

Bryan

[IndianaTravis]

Well this thread is taking right off!

I'm getting a ton of useful information here.

I'm already running synthetic, that was the first thing I did when I got the car.

Bryan, since you are in Cincy, do you ever get over to run in Louisville? Both the Papa Johns Stadium events and the Fort Knox events are worth travelling to. Nice long courses.

I think we should try to get a few of us together at an event down there this year. We'll convince Alaska to start autocrossing, and my brother will co-drive my car (even though it may be totally stock at the time!) and see how many tis we can get together for one autocross.

[AlaskaBlue]

Originally Posted by IndianaTravis

We should get together sometime. I grew up in Muncie, went to Ball State, and go down there every couple weekends, it seems.

Do you autocross?

Thanks for the offer, too. I'll get in touch with you before I do anything. Won't be for a couple months, probably, because we are going to have a baby in a week or two and I'm going to be home a lot!

Haha well I am going to Ball State right now living on campus during the school year. My non-school home is in Fairmount. I have auto-x'd once. The event wasn't put on by SCCA or any other sanctioning body. It was done by a performance shop. I was going about the same as a new S2000.

[btschafer]

I haven't been to Louisville or Fort Knox, but a lot of Louisville and Lexington region folks make it to our Cincy events at KY Speedway. If you organize something, I'll do my best to be there!

[AlaskaBlue]

Originally Posted by IndianaTravis

Well this thread is taking right off!

I'm getting a ton of useful information here.

I'm already running synthetic, that was the first thing I did when I got the car.

Bryan, since you are in Cincy, do you ever get over to run in Louisville? Both the Papa Johns Stadium events and the Fort Knox events are worth travelling to. Nice long courses.

I think we should try to get a few of us together at an event down there this year. We'll convince Alaska to start autocrossing, and my brother will co-drive my car (even though it may be totally stock at the time!) and see how many tis we can get together for one autocross.

It would be awesome to have a bunch of tis at an auto-x! Are you guys running in SCCA? I have been looking at options for a club like that, but I have been leaning heavily to NASA because they have DEs often at place I could make it to. South Haven, MI, Detroit, MI Putnam, IN, Wampum, PA, and Lexington, OH.

[IndianaTravis]

I've heard the KY speedway events are good.

Alaska, that is cool that you are at BSU. Too bad about our basketball team. Campus has changed quite a bit since I was there, but its still the same old BSU. We definitely have to get together now, I need to check out your car.

Okay, I'll be the official 318ti.org midwest autocross gathering coordinator. I'll look for the schedule for Louisville and see what we find.

Another option might be Columbus, Indiana. They run at an old airfield there, and I've had a pretty good time with them.

This is making me want to spend money on my car in a bad way.

Back on topic - does KYB make ti fitment shocks? I really like their adjustability better than Koni (a dial on the side vs. spinning the top).

[btschafer]

Midwest autocross is easy to find. The Central division runs quite often at Peru, Indiana (Grissom AFB). Regional, divisional, and national events. Most any city of decent size in the region will have an active SCCA club: Detroit, South Bend, Chicago, Indy, Dayton, Toledo, Columbus (IN & OH), Louisville, Cincinnati, etc. Google is your friend, e.g., Cincinnati SCCA will take you right to my local site.