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Old 07-23-2010, 05:09 AM   #1
tylerwillingham
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Default Puller fan not turning on and antifreeze boiling over.

Last night I went out to dinner with my girlfriend, got out of the car and had anti-freeze leaking all over the parking lot once I parked. I took it to a shop for a safety inspection and they also checked the quality of many of my fluids. I assumed the reason it boiled over was because I thought they topped off my fluids not realizing that the reservoir isn't to be 100% full. The temperature gauge in my car never changed it's position.

Today I drove the car to an interview and back home, it leaked antifreeze both times and now that car is parked in the garage where it won't move until my problem is fixed. I do not want to do any harm to the car at all so it's not going to be driven.

My father and I checked out the puller fan which is no longer turning on. Thinking it was a bad connection we used some spare wire and turned the car on accessory to double check and make sure that the fan ran. It appears as though the low-speed setting never worked on my fan. I've had this car since July 1st and I've never once noticed a low-speed on the fan, only a high. We could not get any low-speed for the fan to work however the high-speed ran just fine.

For whatever reason my car is not telling this fan that it needs to come on and it's causing my coolant to boil over and drip out of the bottom of the car. Upon further inspection we noticed that the tube on the passengers side of the car does not appear to be changing temperature or allowing fluid to go through it (by feeling it and applying pressure to check if there is any fluid inside) whereas the tube on the driver's side gets very hot to the touch. These are the hoses going to and from the thermostat housing.

Before work I picked up a thermostat and gasket from O'Reilly's. Could it be possible that the fan is not coming on because the thermostat is not telling the cars electronics that it needs to be running. And it also appears coolant is not being fed into the motor, could the thermostat be controlling this as well?

I'm on very limited funds until next week and I'm trying to do whatever I can without jumping the gun and buying more parts than I need.

Any input would be great as I'd like to begin working on this as soon as possible. My TI is my daily driver.

To clear up a few questions proactively it is an electrical puller fan with a switch for high and low speeds and my car has just under 106k miles on it with a brand new radiator and possibly a new fan as well.
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Old 07-23-2010, 07:06 PM   #2
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There is a fan switch that may need to be replaced. This switch tells the fan to come on at a certain temperature.. You may want to replace the coolant cap as well since coolant is boiling over and seeping out the cap. Be careful not go too low on coolant as this will cause air to get into the system. hope that helps..
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Old 07-23-2010, 08:12 PM   #3
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http://www.318ti.org/forum/showthread.php?t=27983
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Old 07-24-2010, 05:37 AM   #4
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I don't know what you're getting at.
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Old 07-24-2010, 04:42 PM   #5
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I was unsure if your suggestion is to bleed the coolant system, or if I was missing something. I read through the thread and that's all that I could gather that you were suggesting. Sorry if I came off rude in that last post it wasn't my intention.
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Old 07-24-2010, 05:09 PM   #6
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I was unsure if your suggestion is to bleed the coolant system, or if I was missing something. I read through the thread and that's all that I could gather that you were suggesting. Sorry if I came off rude in that last post it wasn't my intention.
No worries man. I'd start by bleeding the system since it doesn't cost anything. Since you lost coolant, there's a significant chance that your system is air-locked and preventing coolant from circulating. And although I've never actually seen a puller fan kick on except when the a/c was turned on, if there's no coolant flowing through the system, the temp sensors will not be able to get a reading to tell it to turn on during an overheating condition. At this point, the sensors might be fried anyway. I guess what I'm trying to say is that the puller fan should never have to kick on if the system is functioning properly, unless you're sitting at idle in the middle of the desert. Cooling systems are pretty simple really, there's only a few components that can go bad. When the water pump fails, you can usually hear it squeaking or making noises. Thermostats usually get stuck in the open position and you'll notice the gauge dropping during acceleration. Our cars only need the fan for the A/C, so that pretty much rules out the temp sensors since they're only job is to control the fan. And finally if one of the two notorious plastic coolant lines fails or if you have a cracked radiator, coolant can leak out and an air pocket will develop and cause the system to air-lock itself. Did you actually see the coolant boiling out of the radiator? The cap is designed to relieve at a certain pressure. If you didn't actually see the coolant flowing from under the cap, I'd check the two plastic coolant fittings. One is located underneath the intake manifold on the driver's side of the engine block and the other is located on the back of the engine block below the head between the firewall(you'll need a small mirror and flashlight to see it).

Dammit, I said I wasn't going to repeat myself again

Last edited by cooljess76; 07-24-2010 at 05:18 PM.
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Old 07-24-2010, 05:16 PM   #7
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You should just save that as a word document Jesse, that way you don't have to retype it every time.
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Old 07-24-2010, 05:16 PM   #8
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I did actually watch the coolant boil out of the cap. I let the car run at idle for about 5 or more minutes. My fan was coming on without the air conditioning quite often. At least I think my air conditioning has been off. I can't feel anything coming out of the vents. But a previous owner also carelessly put the wrong sticker over my knob to control the speed of the fans. I have red to blue temperature control sticker where my sticker should be for the different types of AC. I'll take a picture later to explain that.

Anyway, yes I saw the coolant overflow from underneath the cap and I am missing a lot of fluid now. My thermostat housing also had a crack in it that I found once my dad and I removed the housing to change the thermostat. I have a new housing on the way from a local BMW dealer that will be here Tuesday (was supposed to come this morning) and the gasket for that housing so I can't really run the car until then.

But once I get that all together, you're saying just try to bleed it? And my puller fan should not actually come on anyway? And, if I got air in my coolant system that could be the result of my coolant boiling out of the reservoir?
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Old 07-24-2010, 05:59 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spidertri View Post
You should just save that as a word document Jesse, that way you don't have to retype it every time.
Lol, that's a good idea Dave, I think I'll do that

Quote:
Originally Posted by tylerwillingham View Post
I did actually watch the coolant boil out of the cap. I let the car run at idle for about 5 or more minutes. My fan was coming on without the air conditioning quite often. At least I think my air conditioning has been off. I can't feel anything coming out of the vents. But a previous owner also carelessly put the wrong sticker over my knob to control the speed of the fans. I have red to blue temperature control sticker where my sticker should be for the different types of AC. I'll take a picture later to explain that.

Anyway, yes I saw the coolant overflow from underneath the cap and I am missing a lot of fluid now. My thermostat housing also had a crack in it that I found once my dad and I removed the housing to change the thermostat. I have a new housing on the way from a local BMW dealer that will be here Tuesday (was supposed to come this morning) and the gasket for that housing so I can't really run the car until then.

But once I get that all together, you're saying just try to bleed it? And my puller fan should not actually come on anyway? And, if I got air in my coolant system that could be the result of my coolant boiling out of the reservoir?
Well technically the fan should come on, but myself and a few others have noted that ours have never kicked on except when the A/C was running. A few people here have had the same problem and IIRC there's a thread discussing a way to rewire the fan so it wil come on. Honestly I think there's a factory flaw in the relay circuit, but the point I was trying to make was that if the rest of the system was working properly ie; water pump & thermostat, the fan shouldn't have to turn on unless you're stuck in traffic on a scorching summer afternoon.

I've heard of radiator caps failing which allows the coolant to expand and boil, but in your case I'm willing to bet it was the cracked thermostat housing or perhaps another leak somewhere which allowed air to collect in the system. If your car is '96 or newer(M44), it should have a plastic housing with an integrated thermostat. It's sold as a complete unit(thermostat+housing). '95's(M42's) came with aluminum housings and the thermostats are sold separately.

I'm the type of person that likes to find the root of the problem and start from there, but sometimes one thing leads you to another and the next thing you know you're on a goose chase, lol. Although I've never used it, you might try a coolant additive by Redline called "water wetter". This might be sort of "band aid" fix, but several people on this forum have recommended it as it's supposed to raise the boiling temperature of the coolant and reduce the surface tension or somehow encourage the air bubbles to escape during the bleeding process.

The bleeding process could be somewhat tricky and usually takes several attempts to relieve all of the air trapped in the system. In your case, bleeding the system is a must, since you're replacing the thermostat. Anytime you open the loop, it's recommended to bleed the system. I even recommend bleeding it if you're just topping the coolant off during a routine inspection.

In extreme cases of air-lock, you'll notice that the heater will not produce hot air. This is due to coolant not being able to circulate through the heater core. Make sure you follow the steps exactly as stated in the link I posted.

Last edited by cooljess76; 07-24-2010 at 06:07 PM.
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Old 07-25-2010, 12:43 AM   #10
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Yes i have an m42 ti. The alluminum housing was cracked. New aluminum housing is in the mail with the gasket for the housing and I have the new thermostat and o ring for that. So you're thinking that my pulled fan doesn't need to be on without the AC on (makes sense to me) and the conclusion may be drawn that when the shop that just did my inspection drew out some of my coolant they may have let air in requiring me to bleed the system? And the air lock is what could cause my overflow tank to boil over?
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Old 07-25-2010, 01:53 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tylerwillingham View Post
Yes i have an m42 ti. The alluminum housing was cracked. New aluminum housing is in the mail with the gasket for the housing and I have the new thermostat and o ring for that. So you're thinking that my pulled fan doesn't need to be on without the AC on (makes sense to me) and the conclusion may be drawn that when the shop that just did my inspection drew out some of my coolant they may have let air in requiring me to bleed the system? And the air lock is what could cause my overflow tank to boil over?
Pretty much, that's the conclusion that I came to given the information you provided. Of course it's just my own personal opinion from the little experience that I've had with these cars. I've had Ti's with M42's and M44's, but to be honest I based everything off of my experiences with the M44 since I didn't own my '95 clubsport long enough to notice if the fan kicked on. Of course the fan "should" kick on if the temp sensors and relay are functioning properly, you may want to try to get that fixed later down the road for added security and peace of mind.

Most shops don't understand the importance of bleeding these systems unless they specialize in BMW's and even then, the 4cyl wasn't really popular here in the US so some BMW specialists don't make it a regular practice to bleed the system. I had a hairline crack in my radiator for the longest time on my '97 Ti. The crack was so small I couldn't see coolant leaking, but I kept losing coolant and the system eventually developed an air pocket. Luckily I noticed the temp needle when it first started to move and was able to shut the engine off before it made it past the 3/4 mark.

These engines do not like to be overheated. If it runs hot for just a few seconds, you run a significant chance of blowing a head gasket or significantly weakening it. Again, this is just my opinion, I'm not an expert by any means. But I think your situation may be similar to mine in respect to a hairline crack allowing coolant to escape and air to accumulate.

If time/money permits, I always recommend that people replace the entire cooling system whenever something like this occurs since you'll have the loop opened and require a bleeding cycle anyway for the thermostat replacement. The whole thing can be done over a weekend and it won't cost more than 300 bucks.

Good quality radiators typically sell for less than $140 bucks on ebay. I purchased a Behr on ebay for $125 and it was identical to the factory radiator. The plastic coolant fitting should be purchased from getbmwparts.com(pelicanparts was selling defective ones). I believe the M42 only requires the one on the side of the engine block and not the "Y" fitting on the back of the block like the M44(might want to check into that). The fitting cost less than 15 bucks. Water pumps cost about 60-70 bucks and it's pretty easy to get to since it's located on the upper front side of the engine right next to the thermostat. You might also want to replace the temp sensors, fan relay and/or fuse if necessary, radiator hoses, o-rings, clamps & coolant.

I know finances might not permit a complete overhaul, but the peace of mind and avoidance of having to re-bleed the system everytime you replace a part is worth it in the long run. Best wishes in whatever you decide to do, we're more than happy to offer help if you run into any snags.

BTW, the water pump usually breaks in half when you try to remove it. The best/easiest way to remove it is to remove the bolts, then grab it with a big ass pair of channel lock pliers and twist it side to side while slowly working it out of the timing cover. There's no need to hammer or pry it as doing so you'll run the risk of damaging the timing cover.
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Old 07-25-2010, 02:47 AM   #12
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The car has a new radiator, the puller fan looks to be fairly new and the hoses going to and from the thermostat housing both look to be in proper condition. The only thing that really appears to be dodgy at all with the loop is the crack in the thermostat housing. Who knows when anything was last bled, the previous owner has no knowledge what-so-ever about anything on this car it's really quite sad. I'm going to try this new housing and obviously drain and bleed the coolant system after I put that back on.

If you have any other ideas as to what I should try please let me know.
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Old 07-27-2010, 02:49 PM   #13
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I've been through sooo many coolant nightmares with my 96.. Started with a leaking thermostat which airlocked my system.. Removing the thermostat was the first nightmare since one of the bolts sheared off requiring an ez out (this issue is quite typical unfortunetly) Also replaced the waterpump, belts, and fan switch (my fan now turns on at a tick over half on temps) while we were at it.. I then drove the car for a month while noticing coolant loss (about a cup a week) yet my system pressure tested fine. After a month and a half a hairline crack in my radiator opened up. What sucks is my radiator was less then a year old (Behr brand as well). So essentially what I'm saying is just because it's new doesn't mean that it's working. Start with your thermostat and be sure to watch your coolant levels.. Coolant problems take time and can be frustrating.. Good Luck..
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Old 07-27-2010, 09:20 PM   #14
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lHHT-b_d1o&sns=em

Video update
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Old 07-27-2010, 09:31 PM   #15
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It still appears to be airlocking.. That boiling seems more like air bubbles. I could be wrong but that seems more like a possible crack in your radiator.. Unfortunetly the radiators are pretty much plastic crap.. Mine did the same exact thing with a crack below the reservoir where the reservoir tank and the radiator meet. Luckily for me mine was under warranty.
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