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Old 07-12-2011, 01:34 PM   #1
Crashaddict
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Default epiphany swap

so this idea for a swap snuck up on me last night. I have a buddy who has an S52 swapped Ti... it was my idea for him to get it and it is just awful...it sounds bad is always broken and the weight defies the point of the cars size. All in all, i hate my friends s52 swapped ti, it doesn't even feel fast. What i did come to love was my Mazdaspeed 3. Spectacularly fun car, i was hooked. I recently sold that and have been jonesin to go fast. My stock Ti is fried and i got to thinking...."what if i put one of those light and peppy Mazda motors, in this tiny, poised Bimmer?"that tought led to a few hours of research and i found what appears to be the perfect candidate. I propose putting a Wankel 13BTT into my Ti. The engine weighs in around 300lbs (400 with tranny and all the shiny turbo Fixens) puts out 255HP and 232 Ft/lbs TQ stock. I figure if some people wanna Go big and dumb(LS1) it might be worth a shot to go small and brilliant. i know i will need a new tranny, diff, gauge cluster, and ECU, but do you guys think parts like the radiator would suit the new motor? I know wiring is gonna be a btch, if you have some advice, please let me know
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Old 07-12-2011, 03:33 PM   #2
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M44 short block is 210lbs. S52 short block is around 300lbs. LS1 is close to the same weight as the S52. The weights are from bmwfans.info. Sounds like the wankel will be the same weight as the S52 swap.
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Old 07-12-2011, 04:03 PM   #3
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Sounds like a very interesting swap that would probably require a ton of fabrication both in the engine placement in the bay and the wiring harness. Built, the 13B is a beast of a motor and if it's balanced right, what redlines these motors generally is that you can't get enough fuel to them. 10-12K redlines are not unheard of and if it's built right- you're still making substantial power up in that range. Short of its weak points (apex seals; housing seals) the Wankel is great design. These motors bare weigh closer to about 200 lbs- what adds all of the weight is the turbo system and the other goodies.
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Old 07-12-2011, 05:17 PM   #4
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should be a fairly easy swap, the rotary is very compact.

Though, after owning a few mazdas and a BMW, I prefer the mazda.

Most Rx-7's end up with LSX's in them though.
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Old 07-13-2011, 02:26 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by familytruckster View Post
should be a fairly easy swap, the rotary is very compact.

Though, after owning a few mazdas and a BMW, I prefer the mazda.

Most Rx-7's end up with LSX's in them though.
i love the Rx-7 too, but im really attached to my Ti. I also intend on getting a Leguna Seca Blue paint Job,Sport suspension, Sport brakes, full tech upgrade and Vader seats.....make it a one-off custom that would make Audi fans say "damn"....its a shame that people throw LSX's in Rx-7s, the rotary is what gives it its soul.

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Old 07-13-2011, 02:39 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spidertri View Post
M44 short block is 210lbs. S52 short block is around 300lbs. LS1 is close to the same weight as the S52. The weights are from bmwfans.info. Sounds like the wankel will be the same weight as the S52 swap.
Ive never actually weighed a13btt, thats just one of the numbers i saw floating around the internet, all i know is that i have lifted a 13b by myself(off the bed of a truck) while it took 3 of us to move my friends s52....never tried to move an LS1. V8s just dont do it for me....no knock against them, they just seem too easy. Rotarys on the other hand....now those are sweet. 255hp out of a 1.3l?!?!? thats a cool motor. also this motor, being more compact can keep more weight behind the front wheels which kills a bit of the understeer associated with bigger engine swaps....sometimes its not always the weight, but its position on the frame
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Old 07-13-2011, 02:49 AM   #7
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I do agree, the wankels are cool engines. I honestly don't know much about them either but yeah, being compact will definitely help the position of the weight.

Does your friends car have a proper suspension set up for the S52 in the front?
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Old 07-13-2011, 02:50 AM   #8
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i dont understand how a ti with a s52 is awful. i drove a M roadster with the S52 and is similar in weight and wheelbase as the ti and that thing was toooo much fun. it hauled ass too.
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Old 07-13-2011, 03:28 AM   #9
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Wankels are heavy expensive pieces of junk. Apex seals don't like detonation when compared to traditional piston type engines. Also don't be fooled by the 1.3 designation look at the combustion cycle.

Hitler actually explains it best

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxsY4...layer_embedded

http://www.motoiq.com/magazine_artic...-love-16x.aspx

Both of my TIs will absolutely destroy a Mazadaspeed 3 at the at the track (drag autocross you name it).
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Old 07-13-2011, 03:33 AM   #10
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Lol, the Mazda Speed3 only makes 28hp & 44ft-lbs tq more than an s52 but the car weighs about 300lbs more than an s52 swapped ti. Throw an M50 manifold and a custom tune on the s52 and the power is matched. Not to mention rwd vs. fwd. The speed3 does have a 6 speed tranny, but the 5 speed is suffice for the s52.

To each his own I guess, if you want to go through the hassle of reconfiguring a fwd engine and tranny to fit into a rwd car, more power to ya
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Old 07-13-2011, 04:30 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spidertri View Post
I do agree, the wankels are cool engines. I honestly don't know much about them either but yeah, being compact will definitely help the position of the weight.

Does your friends car have a proper suspension set up for the S52 in the front?
yes he does have the M3 front struts, he just bought the wrong motor honestly, high mileage sketchy and cheap. i told him it would be cheaper in the long run to buy a lower mileage engine, its always overheating, the MAF has no idea what to do, it throws a CEL every day and the aluminum flywheel makes a horrible noise everytime the gas is touched....just a terrible car though, i feel regret everyday for being a part of that project *Facepalm*
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Old 07-13-2011, 04:35 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cooljess76 View Post
Lol, the Mazda Speed3 only makes 28hp & 44ft-lbs tq more than an s52 but the car weighs about 300lbs more than an s52 swapped ti. Throw an M50 manifold and a custom tune on the s52 and the power is matched. Not to mention rwd vs. fwd. The speed3 does have a 6 speed tranny, but the 5 speed is suffice for the s52.

To each his own I guess, if you want to go through the hassle of reconfiguring a fwd engine and tranny to fit into a rwd car, more power to ya
FAIL
google 13btt. I owned a Mazdaspeed 3, but thats not the motor im talking about, The Speed3 has a 2.3 MZR DISI The 3rd gen RX7 is the home of the 13btt A 1.3L Rotary, and is a rear wheel configuration....i may be a little overzealous about this project, but im not an idiot.
also my speed 3 was pushing 320whp and 350ft/lbs @18psi(Smoked my buddy's S52 swap all day).....i would totally put that in a Ti if it werent transverse

Last edited by Crashaddict; 07-13-2011 at 04:38 AM.
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Old 07-13-2011, 04:40 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dahamler View Post
Wankels are heavy expensive pieces of junk. Apex seals don't like detonation when compared to traditional piston type engines. Also don't be fooled by the 1.3 designation look at the combustion cycle.

Hitler actually explains it best

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxsY4...layer_embedded

http://www.motoiq.com/magazine_artic...-love-16x.aspx

Both of my TIs will absolutely destroy a Mazadaspeed 3 at the at the track (drag autocross you name it).
Not Mine

but then again i threw a rod after i pushed the boost to 22psi and sold it XD

Last edited by Crashaddict; 07-13-2011 at 04:48 AM.
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Old 07-13-2011, 04:52 AM   #14
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Also guys, this isnt a Ti vs Mazdaspeed 3 thread.....i loved both cars and got a BMW tattoo on my chest for the Ti, so lets not make this about brand loyalty
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Old 07-13-2011, 05:42 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slow_ti View Post
i dont understand how a ti with a s52 is awful. i drove a M roadster with the S52 and is similar in weight and wheelbase as the ti and that thing was toooo much fun. it hauled ass too.
it might be his specifically...it sucks
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