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Old 02-11-2008, 12:32 AM   #1
D33p
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Default Possibly stupid question (fuel pump relay)

Well here is the deal. My ti is dead. She won't crank over, several neighbors had mentioned the starter was the source of the problem. It sounds like the starter is spinning (Not sure if it is contacting the flywheel, any way to find out for sure?) But after reading this I thread I was thinking maybe it could be something else:

http://www.318ti.org/forum/showthrea...ht=bad+starter

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Marx View Post
Is it possible you started the car cold and moved it a short distance then shut it off? That happened to me once shortly after I got my ti and though I know what a bad starter sounds like, the sound the ti made not starting with fouled plugs sounded like it was spinning but not turning the engine. Almost as if it was turning over with no plugs in or no compression. At that time I took the plugs out, cleaned them with carb cleaner, dried them with compressed air, put them back in and it fired right up. I lived the next weeks in fear of starting and moving the car a short distance until I realized that if this happened all I had to do was floor the gas pedal while cranking and it always started and cleared itself right up. If you've been having this problem for a while and you've been cranking it without it starting, you may want to try flooring it while you crank and if it starts go out for along drive. If it won't start, try removing the plugs and cleaning them. Be careful not to overtorque them and use the little tool under the plastic spark plug cover to remove the wires without damaging them. Everything you need should be in your tool kit. Good luck.

At one point I could pump the pedal and I could get it to start, this no longer works.

I cleaned the plugs, still not cranking over.

Then it was mentioned that fuel pump/fuel relay could be faulty.

I checked the fuel pump and it seems to be working (It is audible and I can feel the gas going threw the lines)

So I guess my question is could my relay be bad but my fuel pump still work?

My reasoning for this is because when I took out the relay it seemed like it would almost crank over but would die when it ran out of fuel in the lines.

I did this twice and both times same results.

This is the relay I pulled (K6301) on diagram 3



Also if anything sounds off please let me know, I'm new to this and I am really trying to avoid going to the mechanic.

Thanks for any help!
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Old 02-11-2008, 12:57 AM   #2
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So for more clarification, the engine will crank? As in, the engine internals will turn? There's gonna be a huge difference in sound and feel of a normal start attempt and just the starter motor spinning freely. What noises were you hearing when the neighbors thought the starter was faulty?

If the starter motor is spinning freely and not catching the flywheel teeth, that would have nothing to do with the fuel or ignition system.
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Old 02-11-2008, 01:04 AM   #3
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well it will crank for like a second then stop and you can hear a spinning noise (I assume this is the starter) But it does not always crank at times when I turn it over, it just spins. I don't know, thank you for the help.
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Old 02-11-2008, 01:15 AM   #4
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Ahhh, that's makes much more sense. How old is the battery in this car? Try a known good battery and see if that makes any difference.
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Old 02-11-2008, 01:23 AM   #5
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not sure, it seems new, i know that does not meant anything. But everything else in the car seems to work fine, stereo and such. Could I hook a volt meter up to it to check it out?
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Old 02-11-2008, 01:35 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D33p View Post
not sure, it seems new, i know that does not meant anything. But everything else in the car seems to work fine, stereo and such. Could I hook a volt meter up to it to check it out?
Many auto parts stores can load test them for free. A volt meter alone won't do it. I'd like to start eliminating the simple stuff one-by-one (for free in this case) before you start digging deep into other issues.

I had a battery this summer that would not crank the engine at all after sitting for a few days. The starter solenoid would just click away. The power windows opened and closed at the proper speed, the headlight were bright, the stereo was fine, etc. In spite of that, the battery just wasn't able to provide enough power to get the starter to work properly. Again, the battery is just a suggestion at this point, but something simple to rule-out. Can someone try to give you a jumpstart?

EDIT: Well I guess the voltmeter is good for a simple test.
http://www3.telus.net/chemelec/Proje...Alternator.htm
http://www.popularmechanics.com/auto...o/4221215.html
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Old 02-11-2008, 03:50 AM   #7
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If it chugs then whizzes, it's probably a bad battery. Try a jumpstart.

You can remove your rear seat and hear if the fuel pump is working. Have someone else turn on the car. This is more likely the case if the motor will chug incessantly, but not fire. When you removed your plugs, did you smell fuel on them?
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Old 02-11-2008, 06:41 AM   #8
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check your connection to the starter look for breaks and green corrision
if you have a volt meter touch the leads to the battery in dc
voltage. voltage should not drop below 10.5 v when cranking.
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Old 02-11-2008, 03:56 PM   #9
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Well I seem to have figured out the problem; I was frustrated all day thinking it was something really serious, (Starter, fuel delivery, etc.) But it seems to just be a bad battery, I jump started it this morning and she started up. I'll have to look into the alternator as well to see if it is working properly. Is it often that they go bad? Maybe my battery is just bad? Thank you for all your guys help, it goes ver much appreciated.
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Old 02-11-2008, 05:39 PM   #10
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With the car running, run a voltmeter across the battery terminals. You should get around 14.4v. If it's lower, touch the leads to the alternator.

If the alternator puts out 14.4, but less is getting to the battery it is the rectifier.


As it appears, your problem is only while starting. Make sure your DISTILLED water is topped up and have the battery load-tested, and get a CCA (cold-cranking amp) reading. It should be around 600.
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Old 02-11-2008, 06:02 PM   #11
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Yes, batteries just go bad over time. My battery that died this summer was about four to five years old and could no longer hold enough charge to start the car easily. The thought of a bad alternator crossed my mind, but I got a new battery and the problem was totally fixed. Alternator was perfectly fine.

If yours is over three years old (look around for a date written somewhere) I'd replace it just as basic maintenance.
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Old 02-11-2008, 06:45 PM   #12
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It really depends on how you run your car that decides when a battery needs replaced.

Most garaged daily drivers can run on the same battery forever. Cars that sit for extended periods or are started at extreme temperatures will need replaced sooner. Cars subject to corrosive elements (salty, humid air) will need batteries more often as well.

The only way to definitively know is to have it checked out. Fortunately, most places do this for free.
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Old 02-14-2008, 04:03 PM   #13
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Well it seemed my battery was just running low I got it load tested at auto zone and they said the it was good so I guess it was just running low, but thanks for all of your help.

The starter is getting replaced this weekend though, it seems to have trouble disengaging
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