318ti.org forum

Go Back   318ti.org forum > Technical, Maintenance and Modifications > Engine

Notices

Engine Tuneups, chips, wires, spark plugs.

.
» Recent Threads
WTB: 318ti clubsport in...
05-21-2021 02:08 PM
Last post by jasminemicheal
Yesterday 11:55 AM
6 Replies, 2,384 Views
WTB: Manual 318ti
05-17-2021 09:34 PM
Last post by jasminemicheal
Yesterday 11:54 AM
3 Replies, 2,453 Views
WTB: M-Tech molding
06-25-2021 02:07 AM
Last post by jasminemicheal
Yesterday 11:54 AM
3 Replies, 3,705 Views
New
Yesterday 11:53 AM
Last post by jasminemicheal
Yesterday 11:53 AM
0 Replies, 69 Views
BMW type 32 alloy wheels...
07-22-2021 02:41 AM
Last post by old_sports_cars
07-22-2021 02:41 AM
0 Replies, 267 Views
15x6 steel wheels and...
07-22-2021 02:36 AM
Last post by old_sports_cars
07-22-2021 02:36 AM
0 Replies, 100 Views
Colorado Front Range...
07-11-2021 03:23 PM
Last post by b0m
07-20-2021 04:56 AM
9 Replies, 1,000 Views
'95 Boston Green, ALL...
06-29-2021 04:24 PM
Last post by 06MR6
07-20-2021 01:20 AM
8 Replies, 2,491 Views
WMD 456 Supercharger Kit...
07-13-2021 09:28 AM
Last post by MisterM52
07-16-2021 10:12 AM
2 Replies, 612 Views
recommendations for...
07-13-2021 04:48 AM
Last post by happysloth
07-15-2021 12:07 AM
2 Replies, 529 Views
Reply Share/Bookmark
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-03-2008, 08:41 PM   #1
montrealblue7
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: London
Posts: 7
iTrader: (0)
Default M42: Accidently removed Timing Chain Tensioner!

Hi,
Car: BMW Compact 318ti (E36)
Year: 1995
Engine: M42

Would really appreciate some engine saving advice on this issue;

When trying to flush the engine block of old coolant on a BMW 318ti Compact (M42). t, I fully loosened a 19mm plug on the front left hand side of the engine (thinking that this was the Cylinder block coolant drain plug).

Instead of coolant coming out, I accidently removed the Timing Chain Tensioner .

Realising I made a mistake, I quickly tightened 19mm bolt to push the tensioner back in.

The engine has not been started since then, but not having much experience with BMW engines, I am really worried about this and whether I have damaged something.

I would really welcome some advice on what to do next, and answers to the questions below;

1) By pushing the Timing Chain Tensioner (TCT) back in, could have I damaged the engine/timing chain or upset the timing ?

2) How do I go about reinstalling the TCT ?
Does the timing case cover have to be removed, to resinstall the TCT ?

3) Does anyone accurately know the Torque setting for the 19mm TCT plug ?

4) Where is the engine coolant drain plug on an M42 engine ?

Thanks.
montrealblue7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2008, 08:56 PM   #2
BMW_318TI
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 188
iTrader: (0)
Default

1. No.

2. Just put it back an fasten the 19mm bolt haha.

3. I don't know just hand tight.

4. Drain plug at lower side on the radiator.
BMW_318TI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2008, 09:09 PM   #3
montrealblue7
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: London
Posts: 7
iTrader: (0)
Default

Hi BMW 318ti,

Thanks for the reply.

So hopefully, I've got nothing to worry about then ? Is there any way to check that the timing/HCT are correct BEFORE starting the engine ?

The reason I asked about (Q1) and (Q2), was that the BMW TIS page 11.31.091 [Removing and installing or replacing chain tensioning device (M42)] says;

"Without dismantling the hydraulic chain tensioner it is not possible to press the hydraulic piston back down ...

Installation of the Hydraulic Chain Tensioner in extended (locked) position leads to engine damage."


Regarding (Q4), I need to remove the thermostat. I have already drained from the bottom of the radiator, but will the cylinder block still have coolant that wouldn't have been drained from the radiator ?

Thanks for your help
montrealblue7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2008, 10:49 AM   #4
BMW_318TI
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 188
iTrader: (0)
Default

Here more information about TCT install.
http://www.esatclear.ie/~bpurcell/31...chaintensioner

Coolant flush.
http://www.pelicanparts.com/BMW/tech...lant-Flush.htm
BMW_318TI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2008, 12:22 AM   #5
montrealblue7
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: London
Posts: 7
iTrader: (0)
Default

HI 318ti, Thanks again for your help, and those useful links.

I also spoke to the Head Technician in a large BMW Dealership here in London, and he also introduced me to the Chief BMW mechanic (very experienced). They were excellent, very friendly, helpful and full of sound advice. The superb advice could almost be reason in itself for buying a BMW .

Below is a recap of my original questions, along with suggestions from the experienced Technician and Mechanic from the dealership;

Quote:
Originally Posted by montrealblue7 View Post
1) By pushing the Timing Chain Tensioner (TCT) back in, could have I damaged the engine/timing chain or upset the timing ?
We discussed this issue, and I was advised that it would be VERY unlikely that either the timing chain or the timing would be upset. It was also suggested that I try and manually turn the crankshaft to double check.

Procedure:

Remove all 4 spark plugs (30Nm tightening torque), and turn the crankshaft using a 22mm socket and 1/2" ratchet (I also removed the Cylinder head cover, so that I could see and feel the timing chains, cams and pistons). [Was also useful for double checking that the Hydraulic tensioner was correctly located].

The crank would have cycles where it was stiff to turn, then immediately following this, very easy to turn. I assumed that this was due a piston rising then falling respectively (please correct me if I am wrong ). Despite a fair amount of effort required in turning the crank, I don't think that I heard/felt any piston/valve contact (I hope ).

With the Cylinder Head cover removed, I really should have checked TDC positions on the Camshaft and Crankshaft, but didn't want to raise the car and crawl underneath, to check the flywheel near the transmission.

BTW, is there an easier way to check for TDC on the Camshaft ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by montrealblue7 View Post
2) How do I go about reinstalling the TCT ? Does the timing case cover have to be removed, to resinstall the TCT ?
As per your answer, no.

This is actually discussed in great depth in the informative link; M42 Club: Change the timing chain tensioner the easy way

If your car has the improved M44 tensioner (which is a highly recommended upgrade if you currently have a M42 tensioner [link also tells you how to differentiate]), then it should be possible to quickly undo the 19mm tensioner plug, and swap the tensioner in the decompressed state.

For my understanding, I beleive the reason that TIS and some other car manuals recommend installing the Tensioner in the 68.5mm compressed state, is that the original M42 style tensioner could lock into fully extended position if uncompressed, and so cause chain/engine damage.

Hopefully, the revised M44 tensioner doesn't do this.

BTW: TIS and Bentley recommend renewing the Tensioner plug washer, when re-installing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by montrealblue7 View Post
3) Does anyone accurately know the Torque setting for the 19mm TCT plug ?
The Bentley manual quotes this as; Chain Tensioner to cylinder head: 40Nm (30 ft-lb).

Originally, I just tightened by hand, but ended up using a Digital Torque wrench, just to make sure .

Quote:
Originally Posted by montrealblue7 View Post
4) Where is the engine coolant drain plug on an M42 engine ?
OK, this is a little messy (which probably explains why I accidently removed the wrong plug in the first place!)

Looking from the front of the car to back of the car, the Engine block coolant drain plug is on the left hand side of the engine, in the bottom far corner.

Or putting it another way, it is below the exhaust manifold on Cylinder 4. Remember that Cylinder 1 is closest to the timing chain, i.e. towards the front of the car. The Block coolant drain plug is very difficult to see, (and even more difficult to remove/install) even when the car is jacked/axle stand up.

BTW: I could only see the Block coolant drain plug, when the car was jacked/axle stand up, and had to crawl underneath the car.

Like the Hydraulic Timing Chain Tensioner, the Block coolant drain plug is a 19mm plug.
Bentley quotes the tightening torque; Engine block drain plug to block 25Nm (18 ft-lb).


Regards,
MB7
montrealblue7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2008, 05:03 AM   #6
Flametail
Senior Member
 
Flametail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Nashville, TN
Posts: 699
iTrader: (2)
Default

I am SOOO glad I found this because I bought the piston to be replaced and I planned on replacing it tomorrow and now I know exactly what to look for! lol
__________________

Steffen, they are F's not V's.
Apexcone Projector36 w/ 6000K|ACS Driver's Collection Knob|UUC Ultrasuede boot|20% Tint|TMS CF Wing|Antenna Delete|Rear Wiper Delete|Magnaflow Muffler and Resonator w/ Cat Delete|
Extra Tail Light Mod
6" Speaker Mod
Flametail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2008, 03:09 AM   #7
montrealblue7
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: London
Posts: 7
iTrader: (0)
Default

OK just a little update.

I did replace the original tensioner without compressing, and it worked fine. A little bit of chain noise for about 10 seconds until the oil filled the Hydraulic tensioner, then it quitened down a little. Allow the engine to gently idle for a few minutes for the oil to flow around.

Then took the car for a test drive, but I wasn't too happy with the engine sound. Subconsciously I was also quite worried about the TCT, so didn't dare high rev the engine (> 4K RPM) .

To provide some solace, I replaced the tensioner with a new M44 Febi Bilstein replacement (~20 from ECP), but this time with the tensioner compressed (as it is supplied). One of the recommended means of decompressing the TCT post installation, is to rev the engine to 3000 RPM for about 20 seconds .

No thanks, that's not really solace, more like Russian Roulette. Instead, I opted for the hard work/safer option approach. Remove the Engine/valve cover, gently push the loose timing chain against the TCT, and pop ! (actually it was a click). The TCT decompresses safely in the engine, tightening the timing chain. Replacing the engine/valve cover, carefully checking the gasket is seated properly above cylinder 4, and retightening.

After starting the car, there is a few seconds of timing chain noise, then gradually less chain noise.

Again a gentle idle for a few minutes, followed by progressively higher revs. As Flametail will hopefully report, as long as you are careful, changing the TCT shouldn't be a difficult task.

MB7
montrealblue7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2008, 02:32 AM   #8
Flametail
Senior Member
 
Flametail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Nashville, TN
Posts: 699
iTrader: (2)
Default

when I replaced mine I took it back out and it actually popped apart so I had to re-compress the tensioner then re-install it. I performed the "rev to 3K" method and it worked like a charm. no more chain noise!
__________________

Steffen, they are F's not V's.
Apexcone Projector36 w/ 6000K|ACS Driver's Collection Knob|UUC Ultrasuede boot|20% Tint|TMS CF Wing|Antenna Delete|Rear Wiper Delete|Magnaflow Muffler and Resonator w/ Cat Delete|
Extra Tail Light Mod
6" Speaker Mod
Flametail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2008, 04:17 AM   #9
TestaRossa
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: San Jose, CA.
Posts: 3
iTrader: (0)
Default

I replaced my tensioner yesterday and I think threw the timing.

I did not decompress the tensioner before installing it. After I got it in, I started it up and heard the chain noise for a few seconds and it went away. Then it started to idle really rough and lopey... So I'm assuming it jumped a tooth or two.

Now what do I do... How do you reset the timing? Do I need to take the chain off to do it?

I can't find instructions anywhere on how to set the timing from begining to end (ie; what needs to be removed to get at it and how to reset timing)

Can anyone tell me how I can do this or confirm that this is even the problem?

I haven't yet taken the valve cover off yet to look at anything.
TestaRossa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2008, 02:49 AM   #10
montrealblue7
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: London
Posts: 7
iTrader: (0)
Default

Hi RedHead,

I'm sorry to hear about your timing chain problem.

It is pretty much the Russain Roulette scenario I was trying to avoid, when I renewed the TCT.

Your rough idling does sound like a timing problem, however I really don't have sufficient experience with BMW engines to make an authorititive judgement, and would suggest appealling to more senior forum members for advice such as Viper3812.

This thread FS: Rebuilt m44 Head suggests () that this member has some experience dealing with cylinder heads, which will require some proficiency with timing/chains.

Below is my personal approach to this:

Personally, I would completely avoid driving the car until you have a clearer idea of what the problem is.

1) Check that Timing Chain is under tension.
1.1) Remove the valve cover (10mm bolts, Torque=10Nm), use a Ratchet spanner for the bolts located around Cylinder 4 (i.e. back of the engine). Remember that there are 2 bolts underneath the spark plug cover.

1.2) Use a screwdriver to try and gently push the timing chain (near the TCT) to ensure that the TCT has decompressed and that the timing chain is in tension, and not floppy.

2) Check whether the Camshaft and Crank are both at TDC.

The Bentley Manual has an entire section devoted to the Camshaft timing chain (Section 117, Section 113 is also relevant). I would definitely recommend the Bentley Manual over the Haynes. These sections explain how to check for TDC on the camshaft.

However, for crankshaft TDC the Haynes manual states that a special BMW tool is required, which needs to be inserted throught the transmission bellhousing hole and into the flywheel.

Unfortunately since my earlier thread, I am no clearer on how to check for crankshaft TDC , but this does hint at having to crawl under a safely lifted car. I am sure that Viper3812 can advise in more detail, and also for whether the timing chain needs to be removed to reset the timing.

Checking TDC on the crankshaft should really be posted as a sticky or a HOW TO on this site, since it is so crucial.

3) Ensure that you have the M44 version of the tensioner

I explained the reason for this on an earlier thread in this post.

Next time I would recommend, reinstalling the tensioner very carefully with the valve cover removed, and gently pushing in the timing chain to decompress the TCT.

Hoping things go well,
MB7
montrealblue7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 02:43 PM.


.
Powered by site supporters
vBulletin Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©1999 - 2021, 318ti.org
© vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.2
[page compression: 105.22 k/123.63 k (14.89%)]

318ti.org does not warrant or assume any legal liability or responsibility for the accuracy, completeness, or usefulness of any information or products discussed.