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Old 05-06-2010, 07:25 AM   #1
ChItalian1027
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So what are your thoughts on how illegal persons are entering the states? Oppose it? Accept it? Do you think we should let them stay or should we deport them? Here is just some general facts on how other countries deal with this not sure if this completely accurate:

- IF YOU CROSS THE NORTH KOREAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU GET 12 YEARS HARD LABOR.
- IF YOU CROSS THE IRANIAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU ARE DETAINED INDEFINITELY.
- IF YOU CROSS THE AFGHAN BORDER ILLEGALLY, YOU GET SHOT.
- IF YOU CROSS THE SAUDI ARABIAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU WILL BE JAILED.
- IF YOU CROSS THE CHINESE BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU MAY NEVER BE HEARD FROM AGAIN.
- IF YOU CROSS THE VENEZUELAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU WILL BE BRANDED A SPY AND YOUR FATE WILL BE SEALED.
- IF YOU CROSS THE CUBAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU WILL BE THROWN INTO POLITICAL PRISON TO ROT.

- IF YOU CROSS THE U.S. BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU GET................................
1 - A JOB,
2 - A DRIVERS LICENSE,
3 - SOCIAL SECURITY CARD,
4 - WELFARE,
5 - FOOD STAMPS,
6 - CREDIT CARDS,
7 - SUBSIDIZED RENT OR A LOAN TO BUY A HOUSE,
8 - FREE EDUCATION,
9 - FREE HEALTH CARE,
10 - A LOBBYIST IN WASHINGTON,
11 - BILLIONS OF DOLLARS WORTH OF PUBLIC DOCUMENTS PRINTED IN YOUR LANGUAGE,
12 - AND THE RIGHT TO CARRY YOUR COUNTRY'S FLAG WHILE YOU PROTEST THAT YOU DON'T GET ENOUGH RESPECT.

Now, I'm not bashing anyone so please don't take this the wrong way. But I oppose this I don't think we should let illegal immigrants here. My reason being is that they don't want to go to school (not sure if that is accurate) and get a job, they go into crime. People who came legally went through the process of becoming a citizen and learning English. Why can't the illegals just come the states and get a citizenship? Is it really that difficult?
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Old 05-06-2010, 07:39 AM   #2
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For the list of countries to be meaningful, you should list other countries that are capitalistic and have a democratic form of government. That list is very much "comparing apples to oranges." Many of the countries listed don't treat their citizens much better than they treat illegal foreigners.
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Old 05-06-2010, 01:54 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChItalian1027 View Post

- IF YOU CROSS THE U.S. BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU GET................................
1 - A JOB,
2 - A DRIVERS LICENSE,
3 - SOCIAL SECURITY CARD,
4 - WELFARE,
5 - FOOD STAMPS,
6 - CREDIT CARDS,
7 - SUBSIDIZED RENT OR A LOAN TO BUY A HOUSE,
8 - FREE EDUCATION,
9 - FREE HEALTH CARE,
10 - A LOBBYIST IN WASHINGTON,
11 - BILLIONS OF DOLLARS WORTH OF PUBLIC DOCUMENTS PRINTED IN YOUR LANGUAGE,
12 - AND THE RIGHT TO CARRY YOUR COUNTRY'S FLAG WHILE YOU PROTEST THAT YOU DON'T GET ENOUGH RESPECT
An employee risks fines hiring illegals.
My wife wasn't able to transfer her MD license to SC until she could prove citizenship.
I don't really know about the others.
While I think if someone wants to live or work in this country, they should do it the proper way. This country was built by immigrants.

I have no idea what it's like for illegals, but everyday got to be uneasy.
Exploited by employers, living in fear.
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Old 05-06-2010, 02:13 PM   #4
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Woah woah - most Mexicans are good people!

In fact, the ones in my life are VERY good people!

Lets be honest, the reason we don't try very hard to keep them out is the same reason we shop at Walmart.

We are cheap!

We want our pools cleaned and lawns mowed and tables wiped for very little money.

And, if it can be done without the bad attitude you might get from a spoiled American, all the better.
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Old 05-06-2010, 04:00 PM   #5
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So you're saying we should be more like N. Korea, Iran, Afghanistan, Saudi, China, and Venezuela, and Cuba?

I wouldn't exactly think of any of those countries as being model societies. I lived in Dubai for two years and I would take our compassionate approach over jails and executions any day of the week.

I say let em in! Just document every one of them and make them pay taxes like the rest of us. Make a migrant work program or something. Not all of them want to stay, they just want to work.

The other thing we need to be doing is prosecuting companies that recruit illegals. They are the ones responsible for this. If there were no jobs for illegals, there would be no illegals. Period!

Last, we need to legalize pot. This whole war on drugs is destroying a lot of lives and creating a criminal hotbed along our borders.
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Old 05-06-2010, 05:30 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChItalian1027 View Post
- IF YOU CROSS THE VENEZUELAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU WILL BE BRANDED A SPY AND YOUR FATE WILL BE SEALED.
LMAO I hear that all of the time from my family back in Venezuela (I was born there btw). Also as a Venezuelan, if you had left the country to live in the U.S. and decide to come back to visit, you are automatically branded as a traitor, which is funny because back in the old days they would worship and praise you for mingling around in the U.S.
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Old 05-06-2010, 06:07 PM   #7
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PTS- thanks for making smart educated comments, yes a migrant work program would probably solve half of the problem, i live in Tulsa, Oklahoma and the "mexican" community is very prominent here, i can drive 2 miles east of my house and not be able to read any business signs or speak to people because it's all in spanish!! Don't get me wrong i have a few spanish friends and they are great people (which most of them are) but good and bad doesn't care about skin color or country of origan; and yes we need to leagalize pot, turn it into an industry and start creating jobs and taxing the hell out of it. not to metion it's use for paper and textiles, (fyi -it takes 65,000 trees to print the sunday edition of the NY Times every week!!!!) oh yeah press 1 for english or press 2 for spanish - LMAO
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Old 05-07-2010, 01:44 AM   #8
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I agree with one of the first few comments posted, that you are comparing apples and oranges here. You need a common ground.

A more interesting question to pose would be: Would creating a North American Union, much like the EU, generate a profitable outcome for the overall welfare of the existing countries.

We know from previous economic literature that smaller countries will benefit tremendously from such a union. Absorbing Mexico and other Central American countries would provide with a larger commodity base, lower trading costs [which are already low due to NAFTA] and increase capital allocation efficiency.

I believe the above mentioned method, or some variation thereof, would be an excellent solution to the "illegal" immigrant problem.

Furthermore, I came to the US and I came the legal route of getting green card and then citizenship. The process is long [7 years] and and you cannot leave the country when applying for the green card [i.e. 3 year period].

The US has many benefits and it is clear why people are coming here, however, I agree with your thoughts that illegal immigrants essentially are a drain on the resources of our country.

That problem can be addressed by you and the general population of the United States. This country is founded by the people and for the people. If you disagree with the current policies in place then take the time to write a letter to your congressman and senator. Create an advocacy group and get more people to join your cause. IF you can show that the majority of the legal citizens in this country agree with your line of thinking then the senators and congressmen will be forced to listen, otherwise they will lose re-election and be replaced with new political candidates that will play on the new political capital created by your movement.

Long end of it, we need to change certain policies with regards to illegal immigrants. However, building a fence along a border or just bashing around a few words over a couple beers will get us nowhere.
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Old 05-07-2010, 02:59 AM   #9
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It is such a long process to go through to get to be a citizen of this country, which I am applying for my U.S. Citizenship soon. I hear that pretty soon the cost to obtaining the U.S. Citizenship is rising, which is why I am getting it done immediately. When you took the test, how hard were the questions?
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Old 05-07-2010, 03:03 AM   #10
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The questions are not hard. Pick up a history textbook from a local high school and read through it.

13 original colonies = 13 stripes on our flag
50 states = 50 stars
each state has two senators

etc.

I am surprised they make new citizens take this test considering how poorly educated the "natural born citizens" are in their own history.

I ask my fellow peers on who the first president was of this country and they would be lost. Or I ask them when did WWII start for America and what was the significance of the Berlin Wall and they would be like "Berlin what?" "Where is that?"
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Old 05-07-2010, 03:10 AM   #11
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Ah ok. I am reading through a study guide for the test so that way I won't get stuck anywhere.

It is sad to see even most "Americans" here don't even know much of their own history. Even I make some effort into reading the history of this country, let alone my own country.
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Old 05-07-2010, 06:05 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by PrimeTimeSlime View Post
So you're saying we should be more like N. Korea, Iran, Afghanistan, Saudi, China, and Venezuela, and Cuba?

I wouldn't exactly think of any of those countries as being model societies. I lived in Dubai for two years and I would take our compassionate approach over jails and executions any day of the week.

I say let em in! Just document every one of them and make them pay taxes like the rest of us. Make a migrant work program or something. Not all of them want to stay, they just want to work.

The other thing we need to be doing is prosecuting companies that recruit illegals. They are the ones responsible for this. If there were no jobs for illegals, there would be no illegals. Period!
No, I'm not saying we should be like N. Korea, Iran, Afghanistan, Saudi, China, Venezuela, or Cuba. What I'm trying to say is that if people want to come here, then please do it the legal way and we wouldn't be having this confrontation between the government and the citizens. I agree that we need to document them as they come in illegally. We should have a person that speaks Spanish (which all people do) and offer them to take a mandatory test. By doing so, we can understand how many people are coming in illegally and we won't have to worry about the borders. Also, if people are coming in just to visit family, they should get a visa (not sure if they do already require this) and have a mandated date as to how long they can stay.

Also, companies should be required to tell the US Government that they are looking to hire immigrants and that company should be required to have the person show proof of legal papers.

Neal, I'm not saying that all Mexicans are bad. I just respect those that got they're papers the legal way and respect them for taking the crap jobs that most Americans don't want because (and I truly feel this way) AMERICANS ARE SO DAMN LAZY!! We have the right to own a house and yet we don't mow our own lawns, we don't cut our own shrubs, we don't clear our driveways of snow. And yet people complain that Mexicans are taking our jobs how dare those who get pissed off say that Mexicans are taking our jobs! I would like to see a white person get out there and mow his own lawn, cut his own shrubs, and even work at the local McDonald's and bitch about it then. Do you hear Mexicans complaining about how crappy they're job is? No, they go to work and get paid. They don't care about the job title all they care about is getting food on the table pay the bills and support the family. It's just despicable at how so many Americans bitch and moan about how they can mow they're own lawn and yet they have a lawn maintenance company at they're home mowing they're lawn.
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Old 05-07-2010, 10:39 AM   #13
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didnt read half of the posts as its late and im half asleep but here in az you can now get pulled over for "looking suspicious" i think it is.. which to everyone outside of the government trying to make it seem legit translates to "if you look mexican you will be pulled over" i know more mexicans than i can count and out of them there is maybe two bad ones. and i read above that bad ppl arent specific to a race, religion, or skin color so why stereo type drivers now too? i look like a terrorist on my passport card and am willing to take bets that i will be harrased flying to chicago this summer and driving into canada. americas out of control now. ****s rediculous. and as long as the prescription companies have a say in our government, which is a big say if i might add, marijuana wont become legalized in the states. if it is whose going to buy adoral, or prozac? who will need oxycodones or morphene when bud kills the same pain all those pills do? and keeps you sane like prozac? they wont let that happen.

watch this. explains alot about the weed situation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAe0w...next=1&index=1

there is 12 parts.
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Old 05-07-2010, 03:09 PM   #14
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LMAO I hear that all of the time from my family back in Venezuela (I was born there btw). Also as a Venezuelan, if you had left the country to live in the U.S. and decide to come back to visit, you are automatically branded as a traitor, which is funny because back in the old days they would worship and praise you for mingling around in the U.S.
Simply not true. I have family in Venezuela (originally from Italy) and they travel freely between the US and Venezuela, live extremely comfortably, and aren't classified as traitors.

I am, however, extremely opposed to illegal immigration. I understand this country was built by immigrants, but illegals are taking advantage of a tolerant society. My grandparents and great grandparents came here as LEGAL immigrants from Italy and Poland, and guess what, the pay/paid taxes, and more importantly LEARNED ENGLISH. If we are not going to do anything about these people coming in, we should at the very least not accommodate them by making everything in this country bi-lingual.
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Old 05-07-2010, 03:55 PM   #15
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Here you go mmosquera89 this will help you:

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