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Old 03-22-2016, 06:07 PM   #1
BlackBMWs
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Cool Current thoughts and experience on Track day/Autox Tires

Hello,

While I read some older threads on Track and AutoX tire choices, As I look to pick up a set for this season on set of dedicated wheels, I am wondering what you are are using and thinking currently?

About my current setup: I have square and staggered 17" wheels for my 98 TI. Currently running Staggered Dunlop Direzza 101s on them. CaTuned Coilovers, Mason Front and rear strut braces, H&R F&R sway bars, lower X Brace.

I plan to run dry tracks and in the summer they will heat up here in NorCal. I could go dedicated tires just for the track, but it would be good to have a set of tires I could drive to the track with that can tolerate a little wet road (But not really wet pavement)

Prolly more track time than AutoX for now.

I looked at Toyo, Dunlops and Hoosier. I know they each have their merits and limitations.

More importantly for me tho are, what are your experiences? Thanks!
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Old 03-23-2016, 01:26 AM   #2
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Square setup so you can mix and match your tires as needed.
I've always been a Toyo fan. RA1 for track and T1S on the street.

You talking R-comps?
Toyos last forever and get better with age as far as I'm concerned.
I'll run them to the cords. Lots of feedback.

Only other tires I've used for track are Nittos.
I found them good just before they corded.
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Old 03-23-2016, 02:54 PM   #3
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http://youtu.be/pg1bPs9rPK0

Watch this video
I went with last years fastest tires for price reasons.Hankook ventus rs3 v2
Only other tire I've used in the past were star specs,great tire for the price but I'm longing for something better.My autox buddy went for the best Bridgestone re71's.Crazy soft for a street tire imo dot slicks are pointless and who wants the be changing tires at the track
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Old 03-23-2016, 04:27 PM   #4
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Thanks Steven and Skimmer!

Good informative video on more recent tire choices. I didn't see one for 2016, but that 2015 video covers questions I had on some other tires. I have a set of 6 DS-2s I will use, while I keep an eye out for a lighter track day set.

In that vein, what wheels are you using for your track events?

Thanks again! Rich
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Old 03-23-2016, 04:51 PM   #5
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I ended up buying a used set of 16"x 8" wide bbs rk's
Smaller rims kick butt imo because of tire cost.



Stock suspension setup this year
Fresh bushings and koni's 😄
Can't wait for this season

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Old 03-23-2016, 04:54 PM   #6
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Understand, cost aside tho, is a 16" or 17" more optimal with the same tires? How light are your wheels? Durable enough for street or strictly track light?
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1998 318ti Sport - "Cali" Schwartz II/Schwartz sport interior, Cali top
1998 318ti Sport - "Max" Schwartz II/Schwartz sport interior, S52
1997 318ti Sport - "Tiny" Schwartz II/Schwartz sport interior
1995 318ti Active - "Blanca" Alpineweib III/Schwartz leather interior

Other Current Bimmers: 2006 530i / 2000 2.3L Z3 / 1997 1.9L Z3 / 1999 540it

1997 318ti Sport - "Huera" - RIP
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1995 318ti Sport - "Tiny" Sold
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1991 318ic - "Bert" - Sold
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Old 03-23-2016, 05:10 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackBMWs View Post
Understand, cost aside tho, is a 16" or 17" more optimal with the same tires? How light are your wheels? Durable enough for street or strictly track light?
Not sure what my wheels weigh as I didn't weight them and info on them is very limited
In my experience with any max performance tires is that the sidewalks are so stiff that sidewall rolling is non existent and the only need to go 17" wheels is for wider width options
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Old 03-23-2016, 05:20 PM   #8
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It's hard to say if it's more optimal or not but I bet their is a weight advantage with the 16" over a 17" setup.
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Old 03-23-2016, 07:26 PM   #9
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I ran sticky Street tires (Dunlop z1 then z2) for the past 4 years. They were great at autox and track. My Z1s were on 16x8 wheels, Z2s on 17x8.5. I couldn't tell you if one was more optimal than the other.

I'm also not a Dunlop snob, there are plenty of great choices. Any of the current batch of "Street" tires are going to handle 20min track sessions nicely. Since you are in Cali heat, look for the tires that will tolerate that heat better.

I do think the 245/40-17 was too much tire for a M44 318ti. I should have stuck with 225/45-17.

My last event last year I switched from driving to/from on Z2s to swapping wheels at the track to the 205/50-15 maxxis rc1. Smaller tire in all regards but I still dropped close to 2sec around VIR. It was a choice between the maxxis and the nt01. Got a good deal on the maxxis though.

I don't get paid to go to the track so I chose to run 15s to keep my consumable costs as low as possible.
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Old 03-23-2016, 08:11 PM   #10
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Thanks Dave! Ya, this is one of my money pit small hobbies, so making good use of discretionary funds go a long way.

Interesting comment on the 245/40-17. What led to that observation?

In the Cali summer, I expect track surface to be on the 110-120 degree zone for the Central Valley tracks. A little cooler on the coast.

Interestingly enough, I spotted a set of New Toyo R1R 205/45/16 for a good price. Is this an appropriate size as a set? (I have 4 Tis). I'd mount them on 16" Style 42's but wondered if they would be too short.


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1998 318ti Sport - "Cali" Schwartz II/Schwartz sport interior, Cali top
1998 318ti Sport - "Max" Schwartz II/Schwartz sport interior, S52
1997 318ti Sport - "Tiny" Schwartz II/Schwartz sport interior
1995 318ti Active - "Blanca" Alpineweib III/Schwartz leather interior

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1997 318ti Sport - "Huera" - RIP
1995 318ti Active - RIP
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1991 318ic - "Bert" - Sold
1985 635csi sold
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Old 03-23-2016, 09:09 PM   #11
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I originally purchased the 245s because I was really into autox and at the lower speeds having as much tire as possible was helpful.

On track it became apparent that my wider tires were probably slowing me down on the straights. I don't have any real data to quantify that claim but the 205 rc1s are much narrower yet faster around the track. However, i also got a gearing advantage and dropped ~30lb by bolting the 15s on.

That size 16 would be very similar to my size 15s, 23.3" overall diameter. You'll lower the car by almost an inch by just bolting those tires on.

The M44 ti is definitely a momentum car so look to the miata guys for inspiration. Unfortunately we have several hundred lbs of extra weight and a different suspension design...
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Old 03-24-2016, 03:10 AM   #12
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Dave, so from your experiences, is it fair to say that:
  • for AutoX, the wider tire in the rear was an advantage for you
  • for track days, square, thinner tires gave you a time advantage in the straights
  • You see no clear advantage between 16 & 17 wheels, provided you have the right tires
  • Currently, you run 15's as a reasonable performance, cost advantage

I can pick up a set of six tires to run both configurations in a 17" set of wheels. (Simply as I have the wheels already)

I'd get a set that would be great performing, but versatile enough to get home from track days on light, wet pavement

Look for a heat tolerant tire compound

OK, got it so far. Will read further on 2016 tire options. I suspect most would exceed my skill level at this point, but may as well get a set that can help me progress more easily.

Thanks! More feedback welcome... For a future reference point for others who are interested as well.
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1998 318ti Sport - "Cali" Schwartz II/Schwartz sport interior, Cali top
1998 318ti Sport - "Max" Schwartz II/Schwartz sport interior, S52
1997 318ti Sport - "Tiny" Schwartz II/Schwartz sport interior
1995 318ti Active - "Blanca" Alpineweib III/Schwartz leather interior

Other Current Bimmers: 2006 530i / 2000 2.3L Z3 / 1997 1.9L Z3 / 1999 540it

1997 318ti Sport - "Huera" - RIP
1995 318ti Active - RIP
1995 318ti Sport - "Tiny" Sold
1994 325i Sedan - "Jade" - Sold
1991 318ic - "Bert" - Sold
1985 635csi sold
1984 533i "Max" Sold
1984 318i sold

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Old 03-24-2016, 05:38 AM   #13
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The easy button for track tires that will tolerate a drive to and from the track is either the Toyo RA1 or The Nitto NT01.
I wouldn't bother looking any farther than either one of those two options. Whatever you can get the better price on in your chosen size.

As Steven said above the RA1 gets better with wear. I set the fastest lap I ever set on a set of RA1s on a set that was about to cord, that started out as full tread RA1s many track days before.

I've been tracking my E30 M3s for a long time (over 20 years),,, and I still have yet to find a better all around, swiss army knife track day tire than the Toyo RA1.

I also agree with Dave in that 15"s are the way to go. Much lower consumable costs.
I still race on 15"s on one of my E30 M3 race cars for two reasons,
(1) large selection of tire options from many mfgs
(2) Cost
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Old 03-24-2016, 05:41 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spidertri View Post
I originally purchased the 245s because I was really into autox and at the lower speeds having as much tire as possible was helpful.

On track it became apparent that my wider tires were probably slowing me down on the straights. I don't have any real data to quantify that claim but the 205 rc1s are much narrower yet faster around the track. However, i also got a gearing advantage and dropped ~30lb by bolting the 15s on.

That size 16 would be very similar to my size 15s, 23.3" overall diameter. You'll lower the car by almost an inch by just bolting those tires on.

The M44 ti is definitely a momentum car so look to the miata guys for inspiration. Unfortunately we have several hundred lbs of extra weight and a different suspension design...

This post is LOADED with solid advice and great insight
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Old 03-24-2016, 05:45 AM   #15
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Yes it is. Which is why I love capturing the thoughts and experiences here as while I am asking, many more are wondering and will appreciate your feedback. I do already and wonder where my 15" style 27 wheel set are.

Thanks for taking the time to respond!


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1998 318ti Sport - "Cali" Schwartz II/Schwartz sport interior, Cali top
1998 318ti Sport - "Max" Schwartz II/Schwartz sport interior, S52
1997 318ti Sport - "Tiny" Schwartz II/Schwartz sport interior
1995 318ti Active - "Blanca" Alpineweib III/Schwartz leather interior

Other Current Bimmers: 2006 530i / 2000 2.3L Z3 / 1997 1.9L Z3 / 1999 540it

1997 318ti Sport - "Huera" - RIP
1995 318ti Active - RIP
1995 318ti Sport - "Tiny" Sold
1994 325i Sedan - "Jade" - Sold
1991 318ic - "Bert" - Sold
1985 635csi sold
1984 533i "Max" Sold
1984 318i sold

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