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Old 12-09-2020, 10:25 PM   #1
apexspeedtech
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Default Supercharger options

Hello everybody!

I'm weighing Supercharger options for my 318ti M44 right now, and it seems the easiest choice are a used DASC or a new kit from Hyde Motorworks:

https://hydemotorworks.com/supercharger-setups/

My ideas setup would be a DASC with a CARB exemption sticker as I'd like it to be able to pass smog in California, but right now finding a DASC which isn't a box of dodgy parts is hard enough. I'm fine with buying a partial kit while sourcing/fabricating/rebuilding parts if the price is right, but so far I haven't found one I like.

I'll be doing all the tuning myself with a standalone ECU, I've got some experience in that and am confident I'll be able to run safe & conservative timing & air fuel ratios. Will likely do knock control at a later date.

Would appreciate any feedback on the following:

1. The most obvious difference between the two is the DASC has a custom cast inlet manifold, where the Hyde connects to the stock manifold where the throttle body normally goes. Downing obviously went through great trouble and expense to design a custom cast manifold, so any ideas on the drawbacks of the stock manifold? The one thing I can think is the 2-piece design invites issues at where thy come together, but then again they've run 15psi+.

2. The Hyde does however, have an optional intercooler, and I'm interested in the SC14 supercharger that makes a minimum of 12psi boost. Has anyone had experience in running this much in a bone-stock engine? I'm sure 8psi is fine as that's what the DASC's did, with an intercooler and my own tune I'm hoping I can keep detonation at bay but would be good to know if anyone found limits on the stock motor.

3. I've not had luck getting a hold of anything at Downing, is there anyway of getting a CARB sticker for one of their kits if I do find one?

Cheers,
Neel
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Old 12-09-2020, 10:39 PM   #2
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Hello neel


Check this option made for M42 engine and EATON M45; I have all ready installed in my car with M3 inyectors, Coil plug conversion and UNICHIP....excellent!

www.gkdtunning.com

Good luck


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Old 12-09-2020, 11:31 PM   #3
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Are you completely set on supercharging the m44? I think for about the same price you can get an M52 to swap into it. Unless you find a supercharger kit under $2k, then go for the supercharger for sure. Maybe you just like the 4 cylinder for some reason, if you do that's fine, i'm not telling you what to do here or anything, just giving you my 2 cents. I will admit that i kind of like the idea of a supercharged M44.
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Old 12-10-2020, 12:44 AM   #4
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Default Swap versus supercharger

There are plenty of M52 swaps out there and they just don’t excite me. I originally bought this car to do an S52 swap but as time’s gone on, I think forced-induction with my own electronics package would be more fun for me, it’s just personal preference. Cost isn’t different enough to change my mind.
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Old 12-10-2020, 12:48 AM   #5
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That's cool. That'll be a cool build! I'd supercharge mine if it were a bit cheaper, I like the idea, but I think i'll end up going the S52 route because i like something about having a hatchback M3. That'll be a while from now, but I'll probably get there eventually. I wish you luck in your supercharging!
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Old 12-10-2020, 04:22 PM   #6
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Default Supercharger vs S52 swap

Quote:
That's cool. That'll be a cool build! I'd supercharge mine if it were a bit cheaper, I like the idea, but I think i'll end up going the S52 route because i like something about having a hatchback M3. That'll be a while from now, but I'll probably get there eventually. I wish you luck in your supercharging!
I'm curious on your math. I did quite a bit of research and it seems to me an S52 swap would cost a minimum of $3500 in motor parts alone if you find a good, used motor + DME + Harness.
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Old 12-10-2020, 04:36 PM   #7
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That is true. I'm talking about M52 for a cheaper swap. S52 just if you wanted to. I can't justify the supercharger for myself because I'd rather do an M52. And if I'm already doing a swap, may as well save for an S52. I know my logic is weird, that's just how I think of it, sorry if that was confusing
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Old 12-11-2020, 04:38 PM   #8
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I vote S/C. There are a few people that have used others for less cost than a used DASC.

If I did over I personally would have ITB the m44, possible internal upgrades.


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Old 12-11-2020, 05:17 PM   #9
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Default NA build options

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZEK View Post
I vote S/C. There are a few people that have used others for less cost than a used DASC.

If I did over I personally would have ITB the m44, possible internal upgrades.
This is what I'd do if money was no object.

Years ago, I did the engine management on an S14-powered E36 race car, and there was at least 1 BTCC car like this. I've done a lot of work with S14's and the idea of a 250hp, 7800rpm 2.5L 4 cylinder fits my idea of the lightweight ethos of the E36 chassis, not to mention the weight distribution benefits of the shorter block.

Used bone-stock S14s are now selling for nearly $9k. A Metric Mechanic M44 plus ITB's would be $12k+ for a maybe 230hp motor?

I love the ti but there's a limit. I did a 320hp turbo S52 with a bone-stock block years ago that could be built for $4500 all-in. A 320hp E36 ti would sure be a hoot!

I'm splitting today's rant into 2 messages.... stand by.

Last edited by apexspeedtech; 12-11-2020 at 05:45 PM.
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Old 12-11-2020, 05:37 PM   #10
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What about a K or F22 swap? Or do you want to keep it BMW?


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Old 12-11-2020, 05:43 PM   #11
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Default ...and the supercharge rant.

So onto forced inductions. One of the variables in play here is my time: I can't commit more than 4-6 hours a week to play with cars. I still have things to do on my Suzuki SX4 overland build which I'm daily driving right now.



I want to DRIVE my car, if I do a swap its gonna be months.

Hyde got back to me, and I can use an SC14 supercharger with his kit, using the boost bypass valve I can limit it to 5psi, 12psi with the boost bypass valve closed, and up to 20psi with a different pulley. This gives me plenty of room to grow, the install could be done in a weekend, I could do an air/air intercooler and use all new components.

Current state of thinking:

1. I would LOVE to have this CARB compliant. IF there was any way in hell to get a CARB sticker with a DASC, I'd write a check today. That's choice #1.

2. Hyde still hasn't been clear if there are M44's happily running with their kits out there. He speaks about several builds in progress, but I want to know I'm not getting a science experiment. We know a DASC will bolt on and do the job. But the fact that they're communicating with me is a huge plus, makes me want to work with them.

3. I'd like some clarity on DASC's (and GKD's, no response from them) custom manifolds versus Hyde's use of the stock one. Would hate to go down the Hyde path only to learn the thing leaks from the stock IAC, between the top and bottom manifold, etc.

4. All the DASC's I'm finding would cost the same as the Hyde, and are missing enough pieces to potentially be a science experiment. So if I have confidence that Hyde has running kits that work well with the stock manifold, then I'd go Hyde over a piece-it-together DASC with no CARB sticker.

This is fun.

-Neel
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Old 12-11-2020, 05:45 PM   #12
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Default F or K22 swap

Quote:
What about a K or F22 swap? Or do you want to keep it BMW?
Exactly. Don't have a good reason why, just do.
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Old 12-11-2020, 06:02 PM   #13
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I’m not sure if you’re on any of the FB groups, but this one is still listed available. No idea about the decal/sticker though, Except they Cali is a pain on some things.






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Old 12-11-2020, 06:32 PM   #14
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Yeah been talking to him, its missing the FPR, throttle cable, hoses, brackets a few other things and looks like it can spend some time in an ultrasonic parts cleaner. I can get all those parts no problem, but he says he never ran it himself but said it ran on his friend's car fine.... enough unknowns at his asking price to give me cold feet.

I'm still considering it, but there's at another system that might be available starting next week that's cheaper, cleaner and more complete.
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Old 12-11-2020, 07:04 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apexspeedtech View Post
I want to DRIVE my car, if I do a swap its gonna be months.

-Neel
I did my swap, before the turn of the century, with essentially ZERO support at the time (I wrote my first version of my swap manual while doing my swap) because there was nothing out there at all on OBD-II swaps.

And I did it in a long weekend.

Started Friday night and had it ready to fire on Monday, when it went to the dealer to check everything over BEFORE I applied power. Which, was smart, because I did not have the BMW ETMs (which I now have) and I would have fried a few things, adding cost and further delay.

The dealer had it running in three days. That was a fun ride home...

Now, that aside (we ARE talking about supercharging here) I suggest a 2.8 from a Z3 (hard to find; not impossible) as the weight is about the same as the four, but obviously has a displacement advantage, and massive aftermarket support. With my manual you could have the 2.8 running in a weekend, and then later add the blower. Food for thought.
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